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Several months ago, I purchased a small Longquan, fluted wine cup from the Song Dynasty at the iGavel auctions website. For the sake of this proposed discussion, I will pass on my actual cost, which was 433 US dollars. This cup was not in perfect condition. It has five glaze cracks, but still rings true when tapped. They show in strong sunlight otherwise not immediately noticeable. The cup is a joy to hold in one’s hands.
At the end of November, Sotheby’s in Hong Kong conducted a sale titled “China/5000 Years” which had a Song wine cup practically identical to mine (Lot 396). I could see some small differences in the fluting between the cups; mine has six narrow flutes equally spaced between the slightly wider flutes. This creates a subtle glaze pattern that is quite refined. My cup’s base has a slight flare compared to the Sotheby’s cup. I would have to say that condition was worse on mine, since the other cup only had a couple of small glaze flakes.
I practically fell out of my chair when I saw what was paid for that Hong Kong cup! Conversion to US dollars works out to approximately $10,567 or over twenty four times what I paid for my cup in October. I find it hard to believe that the Sotheby’s cup quality & condition would produce such an extreme price difference. Which leads me to ask if anyone has some thoughts and opinions regarding the pricing situation between various markets around the world. I definitely have my opinions, but I would like to first solicit comments from the rest of the forum.
Hi William,
I think it's probably down to buyers feeling comfortable buying from sotheby's rather than some obscure auction house. It's also a prestige thing etc. Finally sotheby's do offer a guarantee on said lots providing it's listed as m&p etc.
I like your song bowl. Very nice indeed.
Mark
100% agree with Mark.
This is about the platform and the audience.
Lark Mason is a very knowledgeable Asian specialist with tons of experience, so while no one is perfect, he tends to lean very conservatively with assessments of age and value. So, if he says it's Song, then it's Song in my experience.
But his platform (iGavel) does not get the attention that perhaps it deserves, so less bidders generally means less bidding.
I've done very well over the years selling with Lark, so I have no complaints.
However, I am aware there are many buyers who have purchased on iGavel, and we're able to flip the item on eBay for double or more right away.
Why? Most likely do to a larger audience bidding, and to a smaller degree, a less informed audience bidding regarding their knowledge of quality and true market value.
Similarly, many collectors buy top quality pieces from smaller venues, then bring them to the big three (Christie's, Sotheby's, Bonham's), and since many buyers at these venues have deep pockets, prices can skyrocket.
@imperialfinegems I have always enjoyed wwtching him on U.S. Antiques Roadshow over the years and enjoy getting the newsletter thanks to the link on Bidamount homepage. Also, he and his daughter did some you tube videos that were enjoyable and informative.
I would be very curious to hear examples of when members here chose to sell something on ebay that they could have sold through a major, if anyone has in fact done so, and if the result was what had been hoped for. And conversely, if anyone here has sold something through a major that they later wished they had sold through ebay instead?
John,
I want to clarify that while iGavel does sell items worthy of being sold at one of the big three auction houses, I'm not promoting the idea of selling any item on EBay that one of the big three has advised that they would sell at one of their auctions. That could be a costly venture.
However, I can tell you that I've done it, both knowingly and unknowingly.
In my early years, I sold 2-3 pieces that clearly were big auction worthy, all achieved sales above $20,000 on EBay, and would likely have made more at a more prominent sale. I just didn't know better to the understand the value of what I was selling at the time, and the big auction houses are notorious for responding very slowly to consignmet inquiries, so Ebay was my best option given my limited knowledge.
Nowdays, my only reason to sell an high end piece on Ebay is due to lack of provenance. I sold an early Buddha, 8th c., because without proof of when the Buddha was acquired, Christie's was not willing to sell it due to international cultural relics regulations. So, someone got a $30,000 Buddha for $4,500.... and I was fine with that. I paid $100 for it, and I believe everyone needs a win once in a while.
Hi William -
Such wares are not really my area, so I can only pass on what I have been told about these piece and learnt from seeing/handled in the auction rooms ...
Condition is important, and is undoubtedly a factor in the price differential the cited pieces ...
Colour/glaze tone is critical with these wares, I have seen identical Song piece fetch vast price differences at auction due to this ...
How the piece ‘feels’ when held is also very important. Again, I have seen huge difference in prices obtain for identical pieces due to this fact ...
I hope the above is of some help ...
Stuart
Reading this discussion with great interest. A couple of years ago, I drove over to Lark Mason’s Texas branch to preview one of their Asian auctions. I had a nice visit with his son and handled some really interesting items (both Chinese & Japanese). Very surprised to see these quality items in central Texas!
My experience has definitely been on the buyer side of things. Over the years, I have sometimes responded to requests from the major auction houses soliciting consignments. I would send photos of good quality middle of the road porcelains sourced from reputable London dealers and even the same auction house requesting consignments! Typical response consists of ‘Polite Brush Off’.
What value range were those porcelains in? Did they give you any particularly reason for not accepting them? If I may ask?
They were a small collection of hall-marked 18th century porcelains worth about $30,000 based on some recent sales of identical objects in a couple of regional US auction houses.
@william My experience is much the same as yours, but the last few years I've been able to get 1-2 items in per year.
The big auction houses prefer to sell pieces that have established provenance, and when they say their minimum threshold are pieces valued at $5,000 or more, they really mean $15,000 or more that they can put an estimate of at least $5,000-10,000 or more.
when you see low dollar pieces in their auctions, it's usually because it came to them as part of a larger, more valuable collection.
I see. This may not be within their range of interest and the individual value has to be $5000 a piece at least at Sotheby's. I would have suggested you send pictures to Christie's. Your bowl could possibly carry a $2000 - $3000 estimate but with a good chance of selling for $5000 or more. It's a classical and coveted Chinese ceramic object and definitely within their range of interest as such. Those glaze cracks has possibly been formed in the kiln and been there from the beginning and is so they don't count as hairlines (even though they might be seen as faults by certain purists). Color can also affect the value of these kind of wares as Stuart pointed out but it would be worth a try. I have a 'similar bowl on my radar screen that has a nice blue toned 'kinuta' glaze with brown iron spots to it. I'll see if I can find an image of it later on.
Does Bonhams and Christie's also have $5000 minimum value limit? I only thought it was Sotheby's.
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