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Mark:
I looked up fukagawa and saw that it refers to Japanese items. For no good reason that I can identify, I have never much liked Japanese porcelains. So I don't know any of the terminology. These things are, of course, all a matter of individual taste.
Errol
Sorry my phone is losing charge.
I did like the green Jade nephrite bowl on offer but it went way over my bid. The jade was a very bright green with black russet. Very collectable as this us not Chinese Jade it is actually Siberian jade. SJ became fashion at the turn of the 19/20 as the deposit was found and the dwindling amount of Chinese jade especially for large plaques.
I guess it just what someone likes and how far they will go to own it. If Josh said x then I believe he knows his prices.
Mark
Dear All,
Another interesting and educational thread. I read above a reference to Serpentine. Is Chinese Serpentine different to European/ American Serpentine much used in architectural decoration and in past times to carve ornaments like lighthouse lamps etc. Also is New Zealand green-stone a form of Jade. A bit away from the subject of the thread hope you don't mind.
Regards
Michael
Dear All,
Another interesting and educational thread. I read above a reference to Serpentine. Is Chinese Serpentine different to European/ American Serpentine much used in architectural decoration and in past times to carve ornaments like lighthouse lamps etc. Also is New Zealand green-stone a form of Jade. A bit away from the subject of the thread hope you don't mind.
Regards
Michael
Dear All,
Another interesting and educational thread. I read above a reference to Serpentine. Is Chinese Serpentine different to European/ American Serpentine much used in architectural decoration and in past times to carve ornaments like lighthouse lamps etc. Also is New Zealand green-stone a form of Jade. A bit away from the subject of the thread hope you don't mind.
Regards
Michael
Hi Michael,
Serpentine is the same material whether it is from China or Afghanistan. It is a semi- precious material found around the world
It is often confused with Jade and bowenite. The later is similar color but its moh grade/hardness is higher than serpentine.
New Zealand is a very different take. I have seen some 18th century carvings of so-,called jade commanding 6 figure sums. Never really could see the value in said, but that's just me. Joel's had a 19th century tiki tla few months back that they wanted $40,000 for. It did not sell.
Jade jadeite is rare especially if it is of imperial quality (looks a bit like a clearish emerald). Nephrite jade is also some what rare especially if it's white and can command large suns especially if it is old.
Serpentine/bowenite is very common and is available all around the world. If you ever see a item that is pale green, no fibre, shiny and transparent it will be subsequently serpentine. The same as in the picture.
A lot of dishonest sellers sell said as real jade. I am amazed at the number of people sending me pictures of said.
Dating jadeite Jade and Nephrite jade is very subjective, especially Nephrite. It takes numerous years to master the art.
Hope that helps you out. It is a very interesting topic perhaps I should start a thread.
Mark
Hi Mark,
Thank you. I had always thought rocks and minerals may have local common names that are the same but are being applied to completely different materials. The botanical world is full of such anomalies for instance most country's have a timber they refer to as cedar but they are botanically unrelated. As far as the Joel's item is concerned it may of been withdrawn old green-stone carvings are protected cultural items. I have never been much interested in gem stones or minerals I do have an old Blue- Stone Celtic cross that is a family item so I know it's old, well at least 4 generations old. However I think a thread on the subject of rocks and minerals would be very interesting.
Thanks again
Michael
Hi Mark,
Thank you. I had always thought rocks and minerals may have local common names that are the same but are being applied to completely different materials. The botanical world is full of such anomalies for instance most country's have a timber they refer to as cedar but they are botanically unrelated. As far as the Joel's item is concerned it may of been withdrawn old green-stone carvings are protected cultural items. I have never been much interested in gem stones or minerals I do have an old Blue- Stone Celtic cross that is a family item so I know it's old, well at least 4 generations old. However I think a thread on the subject of rocks and minerals would be very interesting.
Thanks again
Michael
Hi Mark,
Thank you. I had always thought rocks and minerals may have local common names that are the same but are being applied to completely different materials. The botanical world is full of such anomalies for instance most country's have a timber they refer to as cedar but they are botanically unrelated. As far as the Joel's item is concerned it may of been withdrawn old green-stone carvings are protected cultural items. I have never been much interested in gem stones or minerals I do have an old Blue- Stone Celtic cross that is a family item so I know it's old, well at least 4 generations old. However I think a thread on the subject of rocks and minerals would be very interesting.
Thanks again
Michael
Should of typed blue-john not blue- stone
Just came across this one and thought I would share it. Carnelian quartz or agate if you like. Sold for $1,690 at Freeman's. Beautiful!
Hello Corey:
This item is remarkably similar to the item that started this thread. Mark thought it grotesque. I think this one is a bit kitschy too and over the top, but I don't dislike it. It would seem from the provenance that this most likely dates to about 1950. Mark could you explain what the difference is between Carnelian and agate?
Regards,
Errol
Carnelian is classed as an agate or chalcedony family group of quartz.
Chalcedony is a generically used term to describe agate and Jasper.
The example shown is nice, if that is what you like. Christie's and Sotheby's have both sold carnelian from 18/19 century commanding high prices.
The example shown has very nice custom made silver inlaid stand.
Carnelian is often enhanced by dyeing and or heating.
Is this one treated? I don't know from a picture.
If I had it in my hand I would be able to differentiate between treated or natural simply by holding it up to the light. If treated it will display striping. If natural will show cloudy formation. So either strips or cloudy.
Mark
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