Dear Julia,

it is a false alarm. Your dish is Kangxi.

Kangxi ware is famous for his blue, but not all Kangxi dishes has a nice blue. There is a wide range of blues, including the dull type seen on your dish. 

Giovanni

I also like the blue here, although it's certainly different from the classical kangxi blue. There are also many lighter blue small dishes and items from the kangxi period. The decoration on your plate is very attractive, and some of the flowers could be chrysanthemums (?) , which of course were important to the Japanese as well. 

These plates or chargers are export ware and so the quality and manufacture process is different in different kilns and workshops, you can see that the porcelain has a blue-ish tinge on the reverse, which is often found on C18th export but not so often on 'home market' kangxi porcelain . I have a large plate which has this blue-ish tinge , and also similar indentations, which are just a remnant of carelessness during manufacture, I think.

The brown dressing is typical of kangxi, and the sprigs we have mentioned before could indicate early C18th kangxi or yongzheng, (rather than later qianlong). The foot here (shape and colour) is very characteristic of C18th export plates. 

But I can understand, sometimes the more items you see on this forum and elsewhere the more you can doubt the things you believed before about dating and identity!

Dear Julia:

I also think this is Kangxi and the two sprigs on the back reinforce that. Peter, in his weekly videos, always seems to prefer the very deep cobalt blues. However, sometimes they are a bit overpowering and I like the more subtle blue colors. I think your bowl/dish is very attractive and I love the design. I would not worry about it at all.

Regards,

Errol

Hi Julia,

There are three main sources of cobalt blue which are used at that time. The most beautiful one is from Yunnan province and called “Zhuming blue”. This cobalt blue has normally the brightest tone of all three. The second one is from Jiangxi province and called “Zhe blue”. It has a dark and decent tone mostly. The last and the cheapest one is from the surrounding region of Jingdezhen and called “Shi blue” which has a bad quality and very strong grayish tone. In the Qing period combinations are often used, mostly a combination of two different blue in order to reduce costs. Due to changing firing situations colours can also vary.

Xin

Good morning everyone,

Thank you so much for your informative replies.  When I first saw it in a dingy corner of the auction room I thought it might be Qianlong, but having got it home, I realised it was earlier but although lots about it said Kangxi, I had just never seen that blue before.

Now I understand so much more, thank you all very much for your help.  

Best wishes,

Julia

Dear Julia and Xin:

Thank you both too. Xin's explanation was really educational for me. I had no idea of the origins of the different shades of blue in Kangxi porcelains. It would seem though that in view of what Xin states  the Zhuming blue would be the most sought after. I still like the paler shades though and in later Qing porcelains I find a Clair-de-Lune color in monochrome porcelains to be very attractive although I know that it's origin is different. 

Xin one point you might be able to explain is why yellow appears to have been a difficult color in the Qianlong and Yongzengh reigns?  I have dishes and chargers from both periods with only small amounts of yellow in them which really brighten up the dishes, but I have been told that it was a difficult color to apply to porcelains from those periods and was therefore sparingly used as in two examples from my collection that I attach.

Best regards,

Errol

Posted by: ErrolL

Dear Julia and Xin:

Thank you both too. Xin's explanation was really educational for me. I had no idea of the origins of the different shades of blue in Kangxi porcelains. It would seem though that in view of what Xin states  the Zhuming blue would be the most sought after. I still like the paler shades though and in later Qing porcelains I find a Clair-de-Lune color in monochrome porcelains to be very attractive although I know that it's origin is different. 

Xin one point you might be able to explain is why yellow appears to have been a difficult color in the Qianlong and Yongzengh reigns?  I have dishes and chargers from both periods with only small amounts of yellow in them which really brighten up the dishes, but I have been told that it was a difficult color to apply to porcelains from those periods and was therefore sparingly used as in two examples from my collection that I attach.

Best regards,

Errol

 

 

Dear Errol,

The yellow colour wasn't hard to apply at that time. I have never heard stories about this (or I have no idea 😛 ). Actually it's all about style or preference at that time. Just like pink colours of Yongzheng era, there are two different ones. The most popular one you can find on your plate. The other one disappeared at the end of Yongzheng era, because people didn't like it. At Qianlong era they developed another pink.

By the way your plates are very nice.

BR

Xin

Thanks Xin and I'm glad you liked my plates!

Errol

Dear Julia and Xin:

Julia's thread regarding how deep the blue color should be in Kangxi porcelains made me take another look at a blue and white porcelain plate I have in my collection (see photographs below). I bought it a couple of years ago from reputable dealers in the Netherlands. It was sold as a Kangxi plate c. 1680-1690. I was told that the incense burner on the foot was a mark for that time and period. The plate measures 8-1/4 inches in maximum dimension. It is actually a deeper blue than I can show you in the photographs. I was wondering whether  Xin would classify this as a Zhe blue or Shi blue and whether you think it  really is as early as I was told. The reason I ask is that I paid only $285 for the plate and that seems inexpensive for a Kangxi plate that old. It is in excellent condition with a couple of very minor rim chips. I have never been overfond of it. It is a little "busy" for my taste and I prefer more negative space in a plate than this one has. Anyway I would appreciate both of your thoughts on this as well as thoughts from all other forum members who have ideas about it. Is the censer mark on the foor truly unque to early Kangxi pieces or was it also used in later pieces?

Best regards,

Errol

Dear Erroll,

if I may give my opinion, you have a nice Kangxi dish there, no reason for worrying.

The price is correct, not so cheap, not so expensive, considering the standard size.

The potting is really fine and the decoration is of good quality.

What is really unusual for the period is the decoration around the foot, which makes it really interesting.

It is commonly believed that these symbols (the incense burner, the pair of fishes, the camellia leaf etc.) are mostly seen on the ware of the first half of Kangxi reign, where it was not allowed for a common worker to write the name of the Emperor. It was like a sort of sacrilege.

Giovanni

Dear Giovanni:

Thanks for your opinion which, is, of course, most welcome! I was not really concerned, but am always curious as to whether items in my collection are correctly identified as to the date and period. I was very interested also in your comments about the foot decoration. These sellers, Bob and Freek, of Shangrila Antiques in the Netherlands  have a really huge inventory of lovely items mostly as Buy it Now items with offers accepted, as Peter mentioned in this evenings' video.  They are very nice people to deal with - always fair and honest about everything. It's always nice when dealers become just like old friends!

Thanks again!

Kind regards,

Errol