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Is this a genuine Mandarin Vase, The faces seem a little different.
Hi Short Dong, It is Austria not Australia !
Hi Again Short Dong
I watched the biding 2 bids, one at $2.00 One at $300.00 ?... even if it had been in Australia the postage was very high. ! 140 euro's that's about AUS$230.00. I think I could of posted it from Australia to USA well under half that. Hope for the buyers sake it is the real deal. I am not very learned in this type of ware but it did not look old to my eye. Some Ebay sellers make make me smile to say something is 18th/19th century if you go from the start of one century to the end of the next.... that 200 years ! Perhaps you can say late 18th early 19th maybe some sellers need more wiggle room.
It’s a modern copy in my opinion. The seller is located in Austria, not Australia. The shipment price even inside Europe is hilarious.
Austria ..ahh how did i miss that 🙂
Yes, The faces all look wrong. It is concerning that they have these fakes out there. I bought on of these kind of vases recently but has not arrived. The picture was not great, but fingers crossed it's not a fake.
Best Regards
Short Dong
Hi Short Dong, It is Austria not Australia !
Hi Brett
Yep, I made a mistake there. I mis-read the location. Also why i missed the crazy postage price. I posted this because i was worried it was fake. If they go to so much trouble to fake something it is surprising they do not make more effort on the faces.
This is a great video on faces from Tommy Eklöf
Hi Again, Well maybe there are not so good fakers , and very good fakers. I doubt somebody with enough skill to paint an 18th face would bother with$300 vases
Cheers
Michael
Dear members,
The vase is modern.
Regards,
Alan
Yes I agree this is worrying - because normally the fakers don't bother with export ware , and because this seems very like the original types of mandarin vase (especially the neck border and blue circle pattern and the colour they have achieved). Also the base does not look very new, although someone has deliberately taken chunks out of the footrim (to give some deliberate 'damage' or wear ?)
The figures' faces are strange, and the arrangement /relation between the figures is forced and different from the C18th examples, but it could certainly pass as a good fake
tam
On first impressions it struck me as the faces are off. They have the same ‘dead pan’ look to them.
Hello all: The only thing "amazing" about this vase is how amazingly awful it is even for a modern replica. The figures are stiff, the colors are too strong and the half smiles or bemused looks on the faces are just not seen on 18th or 19th C. Rose Mandarin or Rose Medallion pieces. As someone else has mentioned they have not even attempted to do the faking properly. Instead of abrading the foot they have knocked chunks out in their rush to get it on eBay and separate some poor buyer from his money.
We talk a lot about possible fakes here, but some of them are actually not bad from an aesthetic point of view. This vase is terrible from every possible perspective and did I remember to say how much I dislike it?
Regards,
Errol
Hello All,
The question for me is when does a fake become a fake. I seem to recall wares for this sort were readily available in department stores in the late 80's early 90's at reasonably cheap price's with not intention to deceive. They had little golds stickers that said China or Taiwan. Sufficient time having passed that these wares are now appearing on the secondary market and the unscrupulous with a little application of chemicals to bases and perhaps some contrived damage and elastic descriptions, are out to deceive the unwary. I doubt any organised mass production of this type of ware at the prices it brings could be profitable. Anyway just my thoughts don't suppose I am telling anybody here anything they don't know already. I really don't like Ebay it has caused the demise of so many local Antique or collectors shops, where they had to give written receipts and have a reputation to protect.
Cheers
Michael
Errol, I have had an experience similar to yours when I was pretty certain either the auction house or the owner of the item was bidding against me to get the price up. I now no longer bid early: I wait till minutes from the end, put in the lowest bid possible and if I am bid against, then I only have time to go a little higher. That is working for me, partly because these are not top-notch items, there is little interest, but this not eBay where it would not work as well.
I often wonder if the low-end fakes (which seem such a waste of time and money) are put into circulation to dilute the concept of what we think normal/acceptable for an era. That might make it easier for the high end fakes to find acceptance within the widened parameters of features, colours, styles etc that are "appropriate" to a given period. I can't see any other reason for this kind of faking - unless this was never intended as a fake, but was simply one of the mass-produced items in department stores that Michael refers to.
Hello again Michael: I think a fake becomes a fake when it is presented as something that it is not. If a piece is described as late 20th century and is of the type you describe there is nothing wrong with that. However, when it is presented as a Qing item then it's a fake.
I too have mixed feelings about eBay. However, one has to admit that eBay has democratized the collection of Chinese antiques. When I first started collecting about 40 years ago, I could only buy an item during a trip to NYC or San Francisco. The prices one had to pay at a reputable Madison Avenue porcelain store were simply outrageous because there was simply no other way to find these items and there was minimal competition. When eBay became available and competitive bidding was used, the market rather than high-end stores started to determine the selling prices. This resulted I think in good-quality items becoming available at their true market value which was the value at that time rather than at the inflated prices of antique stores. I would never have been able to afford all the pieces I own today without the availability of eBay. Also, of course, eBay provides a huge selection of items. The type of antique stores that you are referring to often had a lot of junk and a few good items. I have no nostalgia for them. So i would conclude that eBay has its problems, but I'm very pleased to have it available. If one is careful one can build a good collection at moderate and fair prices.
Kind regards,
Errol
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