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Suggestions about different faker’s ways to fool buyers
In the following thread I have mentioned a fake vase currently on sale at ebay:
I will take the opportunity to alert you on a new trend of the fake industry that I have noted in the recent times.
It is about damaged pieces.
Before, just a personal premise. When I started my collecting of Chinese ceramics, I had no problem in buying damaged items. It should be because here in Italy we see antiquities anywhere around us, hence it is normal to us that an antique object have some damage.
I was really surprised in seeing that especially the Chinese buyers was not considering, at the time, really nice and authentic pieces only because of a small chip. Frankly, I was also happy in seeing that , because it allowed me to do some real bargain.
Well, now that good items are quickly disappearing from the market, I see that the Chinese buyers too are no more so choosy and we can now see some damaged pieces even at the big Auction houses.
In my opinion, this is reflected on the fake industry.
Until recently, all the fakes were artificially dirty to simulate age.
Now, we often see perfectly clean fake pieces with showy damages, including rust staples, etc.
It is a new trend, as also is a new trend in recent times, the fake collectors’ labels, or the Japanese collectors’ wooden boxes, especially for Ming ware.
The vase that I mentioned in the above thread is a good example, as is another vase from the same seller.
I am adding the links to both vases here below.
Note that the seller is evidencing in capital letters the damages. This, that apparently should be a correct policy, is in this case aimed to concentrate the attention of the potential buyers on the damages only, hence distracting from the analysis of the vase.
Beware, consider the painting style first!
Dear Giovanni -
‘The art of misdirection is’ ...
I totally concur with the above points, and would only add that the trend of producing such ‘clean fakes’ with artificial damage and various methods of restoration has been seen for the past decade on wares offered by some South East Asian and Indonesia internet sites.
I hope Peter highlights these pieces, and seller, in a forthcoming Newsletter ...
Painting style ‘first and ‘foremost’, everything else is secondary ...
Coda:- some of my best acquisitions have been damaged pieces ...
I admit that I‘m one of the buyers who try to get perfect pieces 🤭 Had a look at a nice Jiangxi Porcelain company bowl yesterday, going unnoticed in Ebay Germany, but it has a tiny nick, so I passed it.
The vase you show is a bit unusual in that the damage is really ugly. Normally artificial damages are at the foot rim as not to disturb the general appearance.
Though the unglazed foot exists in old items it is used inflationary in fakes nowadays, maybe because it’s easier to produce and has an old and „raw“ look to many people.
I knew that you were in agreement😊
It is not clear to me what you mean by saying that Peter should highlight these pieces in the forthcoming newsletter. Why should he highlight them, being them fakes? I don’t understand, can you explain better your meaning?
Dear Birgit, that of the unglazed bases is another thing that I was going to mention, thank you for having recalled it. I was going to say that, as everybody knows, the looking of the base is one of the first point to look at. They are going better on fake items, being a good example the ones of those vases.
Peter has been featuring and exposing fakes now more often in his Videos and newsletters. In his last video 40% is devoted to exposing fakes on ebay and he is happy to openly expose fraudulent sellers. So yes Peter is a good source for this seller
I was never shy to get a piece with some damage, if it was rare and high quality and flying under the radar. I got a beautiful 13 inch 19th century Fukagawa Vase. It is perfect but for an obscure crack, no one wanted it for the crack, so i got it under £10.
However there are exceptions. 19th/20th Famille Rose export is not really a good buy if damaged. As it is so common. However a very rare and import item makes the damage more superficial.
Here is a perfect example of why damaged Items can be risky investments: See Fig1 and Fig2 below
Two exactly the same vase's from seller Skids. One is perfect condition and the Other has damage. You can see the damaged vase has Zero bids and sits at £9 whereas the Perfect Vase is at £74 with 19 bids. So we can see for ourselves the economics of damage. However that does not mean that you should overlook all damaged porcelain as sometimes it is very wise to get a bargain on a rare item.
Thanks for highlighting this. I am also someone who actually does not mind damaged pieces either to learn from, or because they are attractive cheaper options often displaying in the careful repair, the esteem in which they were held.
I can't get the link to the second vase to open, but that first one appears to have a strange and inconsistent repair.
Dear Giovanni -
I refer to SD post, who is quite correct ...
The last three/four weekly video Newsletters have included Peter highlighting some obvious fakes, and also naming the sellers offer such pieces. He has then explained why, in his opinion, the pieces discussed are incorrect - usually painting style, but also colours/tones, some motif combinations and foot-rim/base finishers - and has advised all not to bid on such pieces and leave well alone ...
That is why I hoped Peter would 'highlight' these fake pieces, and the seller, in a future Newsletter ...😉
With regards -
I rarely see the videos from Peter. I did look at some of his videos recently because I was told that he did comment (positively) some of my sales.
Besides the Forum, I have usually only some look at the “Europe and UK” section of the shopping pages.
When I have something on sale, then I do look at the items listed in the Weekly Newsletter, just to see if my items are there, which happens almost every time.
Now, after reading your message, I did look at the current video, showing fakes and good items of the last week.
Being there, I did look also at the items listed in the weekly newsletter, which I didn’t before since I have nothing on sale currently.
With my surprise I saw that both vases in question are there. I don’t know if Peter is reading all posts here. If he does, we should see those vases disappearing from the list, they are fake.
Dear Giovanni -
As mentioned previously, the number of Asian objects been posted weekly on Ebay must be considerable, so understandable somewhat difficult for Peter to check every object!!
I do not know how much control or say Peter has over the pieces place on the Newsletter shopping lists, but would concur that, if he is looking regularly at the post here, these vases should be removed and then, on a future video, be highlighted as the fakes they are ...
Yes dear STuart, it all depends on wether he reads this or not.
2 Identical Vase, same seller, and same buyers but Vase B has some damage.
£76 20 bids
£9 0 bids
Yes, the Pictures from Ebay are not displaying, but the links should work. Apologies for interrupting this thread Giovanni.
Is it worth selling authentic beautiful Antique Asian Art, when poor imitations garner all the attention and profit. In the blue and white you may need a degree in Asian Art before you can make a judgment call for yourself. I think that there has to be an upside for a Market saturated with poor imitations. Where a collector will strain his/her eyes searching a myriad pictures of lot after lot. It must be exhausting and there must be a glimmering opportunity there for collectors and Dealer's to meet...I just do not know what that is yet.
For the more Modern Antique the market is still good.
it seems that Peter have missed this thread, in fact both vases are still in the Weekly newsletter.
It is very depressing seeing that the ridiculous "Ming" jar has 63 watchers, something that any of my items, which at least are genuine, never had. Ebay is a tragedy for many buyers. Many will cry, soon or later.
Anyway, for the style of his listings, for the fact that he sells mixed good and fake items, for the high shipping costs that he is asking and for the long delivery time, I am convinced that this guy is shipping from China.
BEWARE with this seller!
About the 2 identical Vase's but that one was damaged!
So in the end the Vase in good/perfect condition sold for £150 with 35 bids and the Vase with a large chip missing from the rim while identical to the first sold for just £9 with 1 bid.
As a collector the £9 Vase would be better because you could do the repair yourself and then add to your collection. It has a poor investment value but if your buying for yourself it leaves you with £140 to put towards an investment piece and still enjoy have that vase in your collection to display and view at your pleasure.
Are dealers pushing up the price of the good condition Items.
Both vases have been sold to the same seller, a seller with private profile.
I am convinced that it is a case of shill biddings. Looking at his bidding history, he apparently has a low number of biddings with this seller, but if you look at the bidding history almost all his bids are within a few hours from the end of the auction, meanings that it is a technique for disguising the activity with this seller.
I am convinced that the vases are still in the hand of this not reliable seller.
Luckily Peter have not mentioned them in his video, it would not have been good for his credibility otherwise.
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