Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
Suggestions about different faker’s ways to fool buyers
In the following thread I have mentioned a fake vase currently on sale at ebay:
I will take the opportunity to alert you on a new trend of the fake industry that I have noted in the recent times.
It is about damaged pieces.
Before, just a personal premise. When I started my collecting of Chinese ceramics, I had no problem in buying damaged items. It should be because here in Italy we see antiquities anywhere around us, hence it is normal to us that an antique object have some damage.
I was really surprised in seeing that especially the Chinese buyers was not considering, at the time, really nice and authentic pieces only because of a small chip. Frankly, I was also happy in seeing that , because it allowed me to do some real bargain.
Well, now that good items are quickly disappearing from the market, I see that the Chinese buyers too are no more so choosy and we can now see some damaged pieces even at the big Auction houses.
In my opinion, this is reflected on the fake industry.
Until recently, all the fakes were artificially dirty to simulate age.
Now, we often see perfectly clean fake pieces with showy damages, including rust staples, etc.
It is a new trend, as also is a new trend in recent times, the fake collectors’ labels, or the Japanese collectors’ wooden boxes, especially for Ming ware.
The vase that I mentioned in the above thread is a good example, as is another vase from the same seller.
I am adding the links to both vases here below.
Note that the seller is evidencing in capital letters the damages. This, that apparently should be a correct policy, is in this case aimed to concentrate the attention of the potential buyers on the damages only, hence distracting from the analysis of the vase.
Beware, consider the painting style first!
Dear Giovanni -
‘The art of misdirection is’ ...
I totally concur with the above points, and would only add that the trend of producing such ‘clean fakes’ with artificial damage and various methods of restoration has been seen for the past decade on wares offered by some South East Asian and Indonesia internet sites.
I hope Peter highlights these pieces, and seller, in a forthcoming Newsletter ...
Painting style ‘first and ‘foremost’, everything else is secondary ...
Coda:- some of my best acquisitions have been damaged pieces ...
I admit that I‘m one of the buyers who try to get perfect pieces 🤭 Had a look at a nice Jiangxi Porcelain company bowl yesterday, going unnoticed in Ebay Germany, but it has a tiny nick, so I passed it.
The vase you show is a bit unusual in that the damage is really ugly. Normally artificial damages are at the foot rim as not to disturb the general appearance.
Though the unglazed foot exists in old items it is used inflationary in fakes nowadays, maybe because it’s easier to produce and has an old and „raw“ look to many people.
I knew that you were in agreement😊
It is not clear to me what you mean by saying that Peter should highlight these pieces in the forthcoming newsletter. Why should he highlight them, being them fakes? I don’t understand, can you explain better your meaning?
Dear Birgit, that of the unglazed bases is another thing that I was going to mention, thank you for having recalled it. I was going to say that, as everybody knows, the looking of the base is one of the first point to look at. They are going better on fake items, being a good example the ones of those vases.
Peter has been featuring and exposing fakes now more often in his Videos and newsletters. In his last video 40% is devoted to exposing fakes on ebay and he is happy to openly expose fraudulent sellers. So yes Peter is a good source for this seller
I was never shy to get a piece with some damage, if it was rare and high quality and flying under the radar. I got a beautiful 13 inch 19th century Fukagawa Vase. It is perfect but for an obscure crack, no one wanted it for the crack, so i got it under £10.
However there are exceptions. 19th/20th Famille Rose export is not really a good buy if damaged. As it is so common. However a very rare and import item makes the damage more superficial.
Here is a perfect example of why damaged Items can be risky investments: See Fig1 and Fig2 below
Two exactly the same vase's from seller Skids. One is perfect condition and the Other has damage. You can see the damaged vase has Zero bids and sits at £9 whereas the Perfect Vase is at £74 with 19 bids. So we can see for ourselves the economics of damage. However that does not mean that you should overlook all damaged porcelain as sometimes it is very wise to get a bargain on a rare item.
Thanks for highlighting this. I am also someone who actually does not mind damaged pieces either to learn from, or because they are attractive cheaper options often displaying in the careful repair, the esteem in which they were held.
I can't get the link to the second vase to open, but that first one appears to have a strange and inconsistent repair.
Dear Giovanni -
I refer to SD post, who is quite correct ...
The last three/four weekly video Newsletters have included Peter highlighting some obvious fakes, and also naming the sellers offer such pieces. He has then explained why, in his opinion, the pieces discussed are incorrect - usually painting style, but also colours/tones, some motif combinations and foot-rim/base finishers - and has advised all not to bid on such pieces and leave well alone ...
That is why I hoped Peter would 'highlight' these fake pieces, and the seller, in a future Newsletter ...😉
With regards -
I rarely see the videos from Peter. I did look at some of his videos recently because I was told that he did comment (positively) some of my sales.
Besides the Forum, I have usually only some look at the “Europe and UK” section of the shopping pages.
When I have something on sale, then I do look at the items listed in the Weekly Newsletter, just to see if my items are there, which happens almost every time.
Now, after reading your message, I did look at the current video, showing fakes and good items of the last week.
Being there, I did look also at the items listed in the weekly newsletter, which I didn’t before since I have nothing on sale currently.
With my surprise I saw that both vases in question are there. I don’t know if Peter is reading all posts here. If he does, we should see those vases disappearing from the list, they are fake.
Dear Giovanni -
As mentioned previously, the number of Asian objects been posted weekly on Ebay must be considerable, so understandable somewhat difficult for Peter to check every object!!
I do not know how much control or say Peter has over the pieces place on the Newsletter shopping lists, but would concur that, if he is looking regularly at the post here, these vases should be removed and then, on a future video, be highlighted as the fakes they are ...
2 Identical Vase, same seller, and same buyers but Vase B has some damage.
£76 20 bids
£9 0 bids
Yes, the Pictures from Ebay are not displaying, but the links should work. Apologies for interrupting this thread Giovanni.
Is it worth selling authentic beautiful Antique Asian Art, when poor imitations garner all the attention and profit. In the blue and white you may need a degree in Asian Art before you can make a judgment call for yourself. I think that there has to be an upside for a Market saturated with poor imitations. Where a collector will strain his/her eyes searching a myriad pictures of lot after lot. It must be exhausting and there must be a glimmering opportunity there for collectors and Dealer's to meet...I just do not know what that is yet.
For the more Modern Antique the market is still good.
it seems that Peter have missed this thread, in fact both vases are still in the Weekly newsletter.
It is very depressing seeing that the ridiculous "Ming" jar has 63 watchers, something that any of my items, which at least are genuine, never had. Ebay is a tragedy for many buyers. Many will cry, soon or later.
Anyway, for the style of his listings, for the fact that he sells mixed good and fake items, for the high shipping costs that he is asking and for the long delivery time, I am convinced that this guy is shipping from China.
BEWARE with this seller!
About the 2 identical Vase's but that one was damaged!
So in the end the Vase in good/perfect condition sold for £150 with 35 bids and the Vase with a large chip missing from the rim while identical to the first sold for just £9 with 1 bid.
As a collector the £9 Vase would be better because you could do the repair yourself and then add to your collection. It has a poor investment value but if your buying for yourself it leaves you with £140 to put towards an investment piece and still enjoy have that vase in your collection to display and view at your pleasure.
Are dealers pushing up the price of the good condition Items.
Both vases have been sold to the same seller, a seller with private profile.
I am convinced that it is a case of shill biddings. Looking at his bidding history, he apparently has a low number of biddings with this seller, but if you look at the bidding history almost all his bids are within a few hours from the end of the auction, meanings that it is a technique for disguising the activity with this seller.
I am convinced that the vases are still in the hand of this not reliable seller.
Luckily Peter have not mentioned them in his video, it would not have been good for his credibility otherwise.
Some Reference Books on Amazon
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
3 Trends Art Dealers and Collectors Need to Understand to Break Into the Asian Art MarketOctober 12, 2018 - artnet News
Even though China is the largest and most powerful player in the Asian art market, the country's market is a relative newcomer in the region. Other nations, particularly Japan and Korea, boast much more mature and developed markets. Many collectors...
Important London collection of Asian art to be sold in SussexOctober 18, 2018 - West Sussex Gazette
This week I am in the company of Toovey's director and Asian art specialist, Tom Rowsell, who has just finished preparations for the sale of an important London single - owner collection of Asian Art. I asked Tom how the collection looked in the...
Auction Preview: Asian Art at Bonhams, London, Nov 5 - 6October 18, 2018 - Blouinartinfo
What: Asian Art. Where: Bonhams, Montpelier Street, Knightsbridge, SW7 1HH, London. When: Nov 5 - 6, 10:30 AM GMT. Public Viewing: 02 Nov 2018 09:00 - 16:30 GMT, 03 Nov 2018 11:00 - 17:00 GMT, 04 Nov 2018 11:00 - 17:00 GMT, 05 Nov 2018 09:00...
How Chinese export porcelain conquered the DutchOctober 15, 2018 - CGTN (press release)
Chinese export porcelain production and trade have a long history. Silk, tea, and ceramics are the three major commodities on the ancient silk road. While silk and tea are consumables, ceramics can survive and spread. From the end of Ming Dynasty...
'World in Porcelain' traces path on the Silk RoadOctober 2, 2018 - The San Diego Union-Tribune
“You can see through the cups, so the quality is very good,” said Polly Liew, pointing at the tea sets displayed at the San Diego Chinese Historical Museum, where Liew is on the board of directors. “Look how thin that is. That's amazing,” acknowledged...
Estate of David Rockefeller Gives Works by Native American Artists to MFA Boston, Mesa Verde National Park MuseumOctober 18, 2018 - ARTnews
But, in addition to the high-priced Impressionist, Post-Impressionist, and modern artworks he sought out, he also collected Chinese porcelain, decorative art, and Native American artworks such as these. David made the “Top 200 Collectors” list...
The 5 Biggest Myths About the Chinese Art Market—and the Inconvenient Realities That May Give Investors PauseOctober 16, 2018 - artnet News
One morning at Sotheby's Paris this June, an exquisitely detailed, painted Chinese porcelain vase from the 18th century—which had been discovered in a family attic in France and delivered to Sotheby's in a shoe box—sparked a 20-minute bidding war...
Full text of Chinese premier's keynote speech at China-Netherlands Business ForumOctober 18, 2018 - China.org.cn
As early as in the 17th century, Dutch merchants brought Chinese porcelain, tea and silk to Europe. Our cooperation has come a long way since the establishment of diplomatic ties, especially in recent years. The Netherlands has been among China's top...
Billionaire art collector says Chinese museums are buying up the world's artOctober 17, 2018 - CNBC
One of the world's top art collectors said the art market is unlikely to cool or crash anytime soon, due in part to soaring demand from new museums in China. Bubbles and busts are nearly impossible to predict in any market, said J. Tomilson Hill, the...
Auction Preview: Fine Chinese Art at Bonhams, London, Nov 8October 18, 2018 - Blouinartinfo
What: Fine Chinese Art. Where: Bonhams, 101 New Bond Street, W1S 1SR, London. When: Nov 8, 10:30 AM GMT. Public Viewing: 04 Nov 2018 11:00 - 17:00 GMT, 05 Nov 2018 09:30 - 19:00 GMT, 06 Nov 2018 09:30 - 19:00 GMT, 07 Nov 2018 09:30 - 16:30...
Wen Fong, 'giant in the field of Chinese art history,' dies at 88October 12, 2018 - Princeton University
“Wen Fong was a giant in the field of Chinese art history, and his long tenure at Princeton insured our department's significance in the field,” said Michael Koortbojian, the M. Taylor Pyne Professor of Art and Archaeology and department chair...
Mega-galleries bank on Chinese art at FriezeOctober 5, 2018 - Art Newspaper
White Cube, the London-based gallery historically associated with the YBAs, has given over its entire stand at Frieze London to a striking display by the Chinese artist Liu Wei. Where once hung spin paintings by Damien Hirst now stands a cage-like...
A Postmortem on Trump's Proposed Chinese Art TariffOctober 3, 2018 - Hyperallergic
Initially, the proposed list for import taxation contained 6,031 items, including Chinese paintings, sculptures, prints, pastels, lithographs, and antiques exceeding 100 years old (China prohibits the export of objects over 200 years in age...
$65 million Chinese oil painting leads one of Asia's largest ever art auctionsOctober 1, 2018 - CNN
It was a record-breaking evening at the auction house, which sold $200 million worth of art at the sale. Asian artists featured prominently alongside household Western names, with Japanese artist Yoshitomo Nara's "Portrait of AE" selling for more than...
iGavel Auctions and Lark Mason Associates Offer Over 1000 Lots at their Fall Asian Art Auction Now Open for BiddingOctober 12, 2018 - ArtfixDaily
iGavel Auctions kicks off its Fall 2018 sales season with a series of three Asian art auctions: Asian Works of Art (Oct. 2-23), Chinese Jades and other Carvings (Oct. 9-22), and Fine Art and Antiques from Florida Estates (Oct. 10-25) – all open for...
Auction Preview: Asian Art & Jewelry & Silver at Galaxy Auction Inc., New York, Oct 14October 15, 2018 - Blouinartinfo
What: Asian Art & Jewelry & Silver. Where: Galaxy Auction Inc., 143-40 38th Ave, Suite 203, NY, United States. When: Oct 14, 4:00 PM GMT. Public Viewing: Oct 10 - Oct 12, 11AM - 5PM. Top Lots of the Sale: - "A Gilt-Bronze Stand Figure of Guanyin"...