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A small list of bad attributions in the best case, and fakes.
Be careful with this seller, many bad attributions:
Be very careful, a lot of misattributed items mixed with genuine ones from this seller on Catawiki:
Again about Catawiki, have you noted how many “authentic” Tang statues are there, ALL with TL test certificate? There are more Tang horses (again, all certificated) in a single Catawiki’ sale than those that I have seen in the major auctions during many years. An incredible number, and all them tested by the same Lab, Kotalla.
Some of you may remember the discussion that we had with this Lab a while ago, about another “authentic* item, a Ming moonflask.
Well, here are some examples of “authentic”, TL test certified Tang horses:
What is sad, to say the least, is that Catawiki add, to these evident fake lots, the following a disclaimer:
“Catawiki disclaimer: This piece has been dated based on a TL test. No further tests, such as, an analysis of pigments or radiography scans have been conducted to check the integrity of the piece.”
What does it mean? Are them recognizing that such TL test is not reliable? A real TL test is much more reliable than an analysis of pigments, that per se is not a mean of dating.
These things make me think that Catawiki is not that different from ebay: first at all, money!
Giovanni
Yes sure, a pair of genuine Ming jars for £600! Sometimes I think Ebay buyers are not that stupid or there would be a bidding war going on now. On the other hand if he has only one offer as he has now, it has already paid off to import these fakes from China. That makes me really angry.
Birgit
Ming?! I don’t think so - totally wrong in every aspect ...
He hasn’t even got the description right on these jars!! The creatures depicted are Buddhist Lions - not Qilins - as ‘described’ ...
As for the Tang statues with ‘genuine TL’ certificates from this lab, whilst in Hong Kong 10 years ago such pieces, like these Catawiki examples, were everywhere in every form, type and colour combinations, and all supplied with ‘authentic TL’ test and certificates to prove such!!
Catawiki do seem to make interesting/curious dating attributions for some of the pieces they offer?! You would think they would double check such before posting?! As always - very much a case of ‘buyer beware’ ...
Stuart
I looked at the many horses on Catawiki. You’re right Giovanni, the sheer number of them is incredible. Fake horses used to be recognizable by their stiffness, but fakers learn, and these horses are almost too lively in my opinion.
Birgit
The seller of the two 'Ming' jars is the same individual is also offering the fake 'Yuan' dynasty fish jar, the first item discussed by Peter in this weeks Newsletter ...
Stuart
Dear Birgit,
you are right, too much lively horses, and, very important, all them. This luckily is what most often betray the fakers, they do not resist to the temptation of “gilding the lily”.
What is really sad, about these, is the poor attitude of Catawiki’s experts, with their disclaimer, which is completely void of sense. “TL test only and no other tests”: ridiculous. And the experience, where has it gone? Do you feel yourself an expert?
Dear Stuart, all these items, except the horses that I brought up since I was on Catawiki, belongs from consulting Bidamount pages, either the Weekly newsletter or the European shopping pages. I do not consult the USA shopping pages, because it is not worth, in my case, to shop within USA. Hence there must be more items listed in our pages that should not be there.
It must be because of the overload, I have no idea of how is Bidamount organization, it must be not easy to check everything.
But in my modest opinion Peter should have a look here once in a while, and if we point out a seller who sells fakes, like the one of the Ming jars (everything sold by him is fake), he should be simply banned from the lists of the suggested items.
The same, and even more, for the seller who sells a lot on Catawiki, the one of the lidded vase. He sells genuine items mixed with many dangerous fakes. He should be banned from Bidamount listings, even for the genuine items in my modest opinion, because such sellers are more dangerous than those who clearly sell fakes.
What is also worth to note, is that one of the experts who validate his fake items is a well known dealer. I do not know her, but it is really not good for her commercial activity!! Quite disappointing.
Dear Kaolin, agree, not Kangxi. Same situation.
Frankly, IMO, Catawiki is even worst than ebay, who do not mind in fighting against who clearly sells fake antiques. At least eBay is not claiming themselves of being a place of reliable purchases, validated by experts.
Beware!
Regards, Giovanni
Hi Kaolin,
the Guangxu fish cups and saucers are another good example. They are so common that every serious collector and even a Catawiki expert should know them. They turn up everywhere, have been discussed on this forum and are in at least one book about blue and white porcelain. So this should be a beginner‘s task for an expert.
Birgit
Dear Giovanni -
I also have no knowledge regarding Bidamount's organisation - the number of objects to check must be considerably - but I would concur that if sellers, such as the ones mentioned in the Newsletter and/or others discussed above, are proven to be offering fakes they should be banned from the listings. At least Peter has started to highlight such in the last two weekly posts ...
As for Catawiki this, I agree, is even worse - given the 'fact' that their listings have supposed to have been 'check and authenticated' by the experts mentioned .... Anyone can make a mistake, but the number of wrong attributions is rather concerning ..!!
Stuart
Dear Stuart, that is exactly what I think.
Regards
Giovanni
Hi, Giovanni:
in your OP, 2nd vase, what do you think of the age? Later or completely modern? Thanks.
Hi John,
Difficult to be absolutely sure for an exact dating without handling it, but for sure not Kangxi revival of the late 19th century, the painting is too much off.
Somewhere late, I think after Republic, an area on which I do not have interest.
Regards,
Giovanni
Hi John,
I see now that this vase is in Bidamount Weekly newsletter. I have not noted it before.
Giovanni
This is a funny one too.
Qianlong according to the seller – they are not, they are new.
100% guaranteed – but return is not accepted
"Vases were checked at the reputable auction by British Museum staff etc." – really? BM staff? At auction?
But they are already at 680 GBP. With all evidence ebay is full of chickens that love to be plucked.
Giovanni
With some Shill bidding also I think.
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