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A few things of note:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/292283301860?ul_noapp=true
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/202083890496?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
Some of these raised my suspciains, though a lot still seem authentic. I would like to hear others thougts
I feel the need to post these due to the responses he has received from people that are affiliated with the Joanies organization. I do understand it is very hard to never make mistakes in this business, especially when dealing with such large volume (primarily aquired through provinical auction houses also? There are a lot of suspect items at auction these days) and nobody of course can ascribe intent to deceive but I do feel that some of your comments toward Peter have been a bit unfair, and you could have been more forthright with your affiliations to the Joanies company.
I agree peter never stated that joanies sold all fakes he is showing peaces from her are
right for the timeline and from buyers point of view you want all advice you can get
to make right choices and to me some one who handles that's menie Chinese peaces
would pickup on a fake
This is my first post on this forum but I feel I have to comment here.I am no expert so cannot myself personally comment on the authenticity or otherwise of the vase.As an enthusiastic "amateur" collector I have followed Peter Combs on You-tube for almost 3 years and have watched all his video uploads,including educational videos,auction previews/reviews and all the weekly Bid-Amount weekly videos dating back to Nov.2016.I haven't counted but must total up to 50 hours of content. What I can state with certainty is this:
1.Peters "opinion" on whether a vase is genuine 18th cent or is modern is not given lightly and carries great weight
2.Peter demonstrably does not promote his own items for sale on the bid-amount site to the detriment of other sellers.The seller in question here has been featured numerous times on the weekly newsletter,probably by a factor of ten-fold more than he has featured his own items
3.The fact that Peter has the courage to raise the thorny issue of authenticity with such a big seller,long featured on the weekly newsletter shows,in my opinion, a high degree of integrity.
That's my tuppence worth;I have no personal or business dealings with Peter Combs(I live about 3000 miles away!) but felt I had to speak up
Dear all,
I do not wish to add anything to the discussion about this vase's date, but in the course of what has been said so far, various views have been expressed about the auctioneer who has offered it, Joanies House of Treasures, to which I would like to add some views of my own.
I have myself bought at least four different eBay-listed items from this auctioneer in the past. With one of them, I was delighted, for in my opinion, it corresponded closely to the claims that its eBay description made for it, both in terms of authenticity and condition. With two other items, I was less content, because their descriptions were not borne out once the items arrived for me to inspect at first hand (for example, one, claimed to be perfect in the description, had a large glaze chip from the rim, and another, also claimed as perfect, had a small section chipped from it). And in the case of a fourth item, a bronze hu-shaped vase, categorically described as being of the Yuan/Ming period (something that it might indeed have been judging from the online photographs alone), this was nothing less than a modern fake once physically handled and viewed up close.
So, based on my experience of this eBay auctioneer, which from what I have said you will by now appreciate has been very mixed, my conclusion is as follows: as far as possible, before you think of bidding, exercise your own judgement on the claims that are being made in the description by carefully balancing them against what the images provided are telling you (although unfortunately, of course, images alone cannot hope to tell you the whole story, no matter how numerous they are). However, this advice necessarily also implies that you will already have a level of competence that will act as a check and balance against the description's claims. Speaking solely from my own experience, the descriptions of this auctioneer really are a mixed bag. And here's a general cautionary note that I would like Joanies House of Treasures to reflect on, if any of its agents are reading this thread: what merit has the assertion, often found in descriptions, that 'I am told that' (whatever the item is) 'dates to' (whatever the period is), when nowhere do we get to hear who the person is who is doing the telling. Hence we are utterly at a loss to know what authority to attach to the opinion of the nameless expert. We need to know who is doing the telling, so that we can better assess what relative weight the claim being made might deserve.
In short, my own experience has led me to be my own adviser about items being offered by this particular eBay seller, and always to be sceptical about the merits of the description provided. If the description details coincide with what I conclude for myself, all well and good, but I would not follow these descriptions blindly.
And a final note about the personalised attack on Peter Combs evident in a couple of the posts in this thread - wholly unwarranted, in my opinion, and a touch hysterical; their tone speaks for itself. Civility is a prize, is it not? Best if we cherish it.
Alan
Thank you for sharing your experience, Alan! This post has definitely changed my view on Joanies
And Peter: keep up the good work! ?
As a neophyte in the world of Asian porcelain, I regard Peters words in high regard. Like Epcor I owe a lot of my knowledge to his videos and newsletter. Not having the decades of experience or knowledge that comes with it I can not comment on the subject items of this thread but do believe Peter has done many of us a great service in the giving of his time and energy to sorting the wheat from the chaff.
Joanies 1.) is amazing. How they do it - I could never. Many great things. And a lot of ok stuff, but it's impossible to offer 300 great things every auction - it's hard to find that much stuff. I have seen stuff she's offered turn up at Christie's.
Joanies 2.) is a salesman through-and-through.
3.) Salesman sell. (Think of us as used car dealers)
4.) Make your own decisions. If you cannot make your own decisions... don't get into Asian art. It will be a expensive move.
5.) I think Joanies is good for the overall health of the eBay market, she drives a lot of buyers to the site. Everyone must make their owned informed decisions.
It is what it is!
Dear all,
When I originally posted about this vase and about some of the issues arising from the discussion of it, I said I wouldn't comment about the age claims being made for it. I still won't, but readers might like to check out another vase, of a broadly similar type, that's currently being offered by Bonhams, Edinburgh, in their forthcoming Asian arts sale on 21 March.
While certainly not identical in every respect to the vase under discussion, the Edinburgh vase nevertheless has several points that are interestingly comparable. The verdict of the Edinburgh appraisers (and they work hand in glove with the London ones) is that the vase they're selling is 20th century. Also, if readers check the condition report they've prepared on their vase, it's further declared to be 'a relatively new item'.
Here's the link: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24749/lot/273/?category=grid&length=36&page=8
Incidentally, Forum readers might like to check out this Edinburgh Bonhams sale generally as it's got some nice things in it at reasonable estimates (for example, lot 270, a Yongzheng mark and period blue and white bowl, in overall good condition).
Alan
Alan,
I appreciate that you shared your experience with Joanies. I have purchased tons of items on Ebay, but nothing from Joanies.
Since I first came across their auctions, I felt like half of the stuff is fake. Considering that they also have problems describing
their products accurately, I think this auction house is a total disaster.
As Peter said one time back in the day: "if somebody has too much good stuff, it's probably fake". I'll keep that in mind, always!
Thanks a lot!
Have to agree with Nurse210, the shop is a mixture of old and fake. When I first saw the shop some months ago I wasn't sure if it was just my personal mistrust of so many old pieces in perfect condition, but thanks to this discussion I see more clearly now. Also I think it is untrustworthy to compare the offered pieces with Christie's examples when they look so much cheaper.
Birgit
Hello everyone,
I have to agree with Peter that this vase is a modern piece, not Qianlong dating and not 19th C! You can even bid every week on live auctioneers or invaluable! There's so many of these sort of vases pop up everywhere... and so many BS Estates sales!!! You can easily search on Christie's, Sotheby's, Bonhams or even Poly in China for the genuine pieces to make comparisons. All the vases would look almost similar, but for genuine Qianlong pieces look especially on the drawings detail, colour blue is totally different, shape is sturdy, mask handles is different, footrim is different and marking is written with detail chinese character strokes, just to name a few. By the way, these elements to look for are not rocket science, everyone can learn from putting effort into studying the details... If looking at the photos, it's already showing you signs of differences between the genuine pieces that was sold at top auction houses. Then one should be careful to go further...
For Joanies, I have personally bought few items from Joanies, some of their items are genuine... some are not! I have also taken the items to Christie's & Sotheby's and was confirmed they are not from the period that was listed on their sale. Joanies claims many items are from Mike Vermeer, which again are not for some!!! There was another item that Joanies bought from a small auction house in US, a Song style bowl with a provenance label. If you are a real expert selling antiques, you would notice instantly the shape, glaze, colour is not correct for a Song piece, instead Joanies listed as Song and even mentioned highly on the provenance and claim it was his own collection. So, bidders bid to the roof... it was sold! It's a later period and sold as a Song artefacts!!! So, don't simply defend Joanies... I have many times call Charles, Joanies is the ebay name... hope Charles is the real name given to me by Joanies... to explain about the pieces I have bought and mentioned about the inaccurate dating, instead he would just give other reasons and kept delaying... Conclusion, Joanies do have genuine items and also modern pieces... and for provenance, please take it as a pinch of salt!!!
For Peter, I watches his video for a long time and spoken with him on phone a few times. Really nice guy, professional and frank. Very helpful for many times that I was asking for his professional opinion on artefacts. He's never asked for me to buy anything from him till today, mostly just help me out on advice. For some of the items that he wasn't sure, he just said he's really not sure... that's all... Conclusion, Peter doesn't need to build a forum to sell his stuffs and try to win popularities... he's been in the business for years. Of course, there's people that like him and there's people that don't like him... same like all of us! Call him and you may find he's just a good guy.
Hope my sharing can help and if anything I have said offended anyone, I do apologise as it's not my intention to offend but to be honest.
Best wishes
Sheng
Dear Sheng,
There is absolutely no need to apologise to me, for one, on account of anything that you have said in your post, because if you read mine, you will see that what you have said about your experience of buying from this auctioneer corresponds exactly with my own.
I am in fact reassured to hear what you have to say, because it suggests that my own experience is not anomalous, and that there may be some consensus emerging here.
Regards,
Alan
The "Qianlong" vase sold for $5,650! If this is a contemporary vase as many here seem to think that is a wonderful return on a small investment!
Hi everyone, I just want to say the market is so crazy, you could take pictures of a pile of dog poop and call it antique Chinese with a Chen Lung mark and it would get bidders and probably sell for a few hundred dollars, it's that crazy. I bid on a couple of items from joanie's and lost them, it's ok. As errol pointed out the vase in question sold for 5600. US. I did bid on the vase early on and was willing to spend a lot on it until I consulted someone with much more knowledge than I, so your welcome for the 5 gs.
best
joe carazola
Just came across this thread and wanted to mention that such a vase was listed at Bruun Rasmussen in their autumn sale 2017, where it was (possibly incorrectly) dated to the 19th century, estimated at DKK 30,000 but bid up to DKK 1,200,000 - the price of a mark and period example. It was however apparently never paid for because the DKK1,2m 'sold price' in the the link below has been corrected to UNSOLD , as I just found out when checking the link after discovering this thread.
https://bruun-rasmussen.dk/m/lots/FFE70C6C83AA?auction_day_id=1005594&status=sold
I had started another thread regarding a soaptone seal in that sale at the asianart.com forum last year but only got very little feedback :
http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=106174
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