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One of our fellow FORUM members brought this to my attention earlier today,
Joanies in Canada has this vase listed, in the description, in the description it says "I am told likely dates to the 19th century.." it is not, it is modern in my opinion. By modern, I mean less than 30 years old.
The foot is all wrong, the mark is off and the decoration lacks the fluidity one would expect.
Note, they DID not make pots like this in the 19th C. as copies of Qianlong examples. (not that I've ever seen)
Peter
Peter
Peter, what are you talking about here are you serious? This vase is absolutely NOT brand new and is absolutely a Qing dynasty example. Joanie has full provenance to prove this. Christie's has sold several identical examples as 19th century, oh but I am sure you think that you know more than them? Seriously Peter, you want to make this forum up to promote yourself an try and make others that are the best and more reputable sellers in question? Who do you think you are Peter, this is BS Joanie should be pursuing legal actions again you for this. Its not some game Peter where you can just spew out utter nonsense and lies like this about someone so well respected. Shame on you Peter, why don't you ask some real experts before you start making such blatantly false accusations.
You are absolutely 100% wrong regarding this vase! I know the family and the estate where it came from and this vase along with many other items were brought to Canada in the early 20th century. I have actually handled the vase and the blue and white painting and glaze is very fine. I had the opportunity to buy it, however declined because of the damage. In my expert opinion this is 19th c. and at the very latest, very early 20th c.
It's amazing how much the two above posts look and sound just like the email I got this morning from Joanies in Canada. You guys are now being very funny.
Also, newly created accounts just this morning too..! "Me doth think you protest too much.."
Peter
Peter
Yes, I'm a new member this morning. Usually, I'm far too busy to follow "chat sites" however this was brought to my attention because I am familiar with the history of this particular vase and have actually handled it, which you have not. And I'm sorry to say you are incorrect, it is NOT a new or modern vase. There's no point in commenting any further.
Andrew
Of course, you're "familiar with it", judging by your site, you and Joanies appear to be one in the same, just under another name. We checked. Unless perhaps your previous sales inventory is virtually identical to Joanies?
If you've handled this vase and think it's old (over 30 years) with that screwed up mark, poor paste and bad glaze I cannot help you.
Peter
Peter
Peter, you really have made a mistake here and should be good enough to just admit it instead of trying to change the subject talking about things you have no idea about. Now your are publicly attacking peoples character that you do not even know at all? Is this how you run your forum "Peters always right about everything" and if you contradict Peter in the least he will personally publically attack you? No thanks
The subject of art is driven by opinion. The forum is here to discuss opinion and we all approach from different angles. There should be no animosity and if the vase is right, you should have nothing to worry about by others discussing their doubts regarding its authenticity as those that are willing to spend more serious amounts are rarely ignorant to the subject
IT SEEMS LIKE THE PEOPLE SURROUNDING JOANNIES ARE BEHAVING QUITE STRANGE..
I have sold many items through Joanies over the years. They are very reputable top eBay sellers.
So firstly you say "new", now 30 years old this shows you don't really know. You should really watch what you say on public forums sometimes it does not make you look very professional or knowledgeable. This forum seems to be just set up to self promote yourself at the costs of other sellers. no more comments
Andrew
First, I rarely promote my own business or what I sell on this site. On occasion, I even forget to put my own things in the weekly News-Letter. I promote everyone else including hundreds of eBay sellers as well as the larger auction houses with their full knowledge. I love this business and want everyone to as well. I have a link off the menu at the top of the page for my own business and a blurb at the bottom of the Home Page.
Second, other than on this overblown issue, I have not created any disagreements with anyone at any time. Two weeks ago, I included several things being sold by Joanies, because they were good pieces.
I expressed my opinion that this black-footed gunked up vase is a copy made in the last 30 years. I am very open to being shown real older pieces with this vases characteristic which are demonstrably 19th C. or even early 20th C. I have no problem with that at all.
So with that in mind, lets all have a look at some accurate comps. If I am mistaken, I'll be happy to say so. However, a seller just saying its been in an unnamed collection "since the 1933" and from that same collection are Tea Caddies being sold made in the 1990's being offered as 18th C. doesn't instil a lot of confidence.
Just thought a little perspective would be useful here.
Peter
Peter
Hello, peter
I no expert but I don't see 1ooyears of ware let alone over 200 years of ware.
and peter clearly states made in last 30 year and i bene member for 4 weeks
he has not promote one thing of his and what i see he promote is his knowledge
on Chinese porcelain
Hello John,
One of the most glaring things. in addition to a lack of wear to look for, are things present that shouldn't be. On this particular example the blackened foot rim is something that's become fairly common on blue and white reproductions since the 1980's. (anything made post 1980's is "NEW" in the world of Chinese porcelain) From a manufacturing standpoint, the unglazed foot should have no color other than what would appear naturally in the firing process. BLACK isn't one of them, as there is nothing in porcelain paste that could turn this color naturally in the kiln. The use of black ink has been done since the Song dynasty to highlight crackles of the glaze, on occasion, it would also get onto the unglazed paste as a result.
Note, In China, they are right now exporting vases and other porcelains "pre-drilled" and with minor restorations, and added abrasions to give the appearance of age.
In fairness and contrast, I should point out this same seller does have a late 19th C. -early 20th C. "Peach Vase", with a perfectly normal looking foot for the period. Its is dated in the listing unequivocally as being Guangxu circa 1890, which I do agree with.
Peter
Peter
Morning, peter
that was one of things i was look at ,correct me if I'm wrong if there
aclear glases on apeace that over 100 plus year old there be some discoloration
or haze look and with regular cleaning age take it toll on all things and I have
read where they take older bottoms and put on new peaces.
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