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Dear learning 247,
Yes, both mark forms are possible variants of the Jiaqing seal mark.
Dear Ron,
You raise an interesting point, but I think that as a broad rule of thumb, it's fair to say that any product with Imperial quality, such as the Bonhams vase displays but the eBay vase merely gestures at and falls short of, would have set a standard against which poorer versions would simply not have been tolerated. Emperors were notoriously fussy connoisseurs of their porcelains and the potters knew this. No Jingdezhen potter working at an Imperial kiln during the Qing period would have been so rash as to try to fob the court off with an inferior product. Does that address the point you've raised?
Regards to both,
Alan
Dear learning 247,
Yes, both mark forms are possible variants of the Jiaqing seal mark.
Dear Ron,
You raise an interesting point, but I think that as a broad rule of thumb, it's fair to say that any product with Imperial quality, such as the Bonhams vase displays but the eBay vase merely gestures at and falls short of, would have set a standard against which poorer versions would simply not have been tolerated. Emperors were notoriously fussy connoisseurs of their porcelains and the potters knew this. No Jingdezhen potter working at an Imperial kiln during the Qing period would have been so rash as to try to fob the court off with an inferior product. Does that address the point you've raised?
Regards to both,
Alan
Sorry for the double posting, I'm still getting the hang of this!
Alan, thanks for the reply. I understand what your saying, manufacturing a substandard product may lose you your head.
Staying on the side of the devil, would the same vase be allowed from a non imperial kiln and of substandard quality, available to those of a lesser rank. This could make the ebay vase period and correct. Just not worth nearly the money of the Bonham vase.
Dear Ron,
I can't personally think of any actual precedents for the sort of scenario that you've suggested there.
There are some wares that we refer to as minyao, or popular wares, which can indeed bear seal marks and which aren't manufactured with the same high production values that the guanyao wares, or official wares, display, but the minyao wares are instantly recognisable. Indeed, one of the things that often makes them so is the way their seal marks are drawn. These, though readable, are often executed less carefully, and that's one of the characteristics that you might well expect these wares to have.
No, the eBay vase is pretending to be an Imperial product, not a less well produced, if period, example made for someone lower down the social pecking order. It's fake guanyao, not honest minyao!
All the best,
Alan
Once again Alan, thanks for your input. A lesson well learnt. Combination of poor workmanship, a wrong foot combined with a too perfect mark gives it away as an imposter.
hello ron
I also thought the ebay vase looked a bit washed out and pale compared to the bonhams vase
but was wondering could that be down to light conditions and or some colour distortion from the cameras
As in my opinion, the picture of the bonhams vase looks professionally taken in a darkened studio with a light illuminating the vase from above it making the colours of the vase look more vibrant.
and the main picture of the ebay vase looks like its been taken in a rush with a phone its not even in focus especially at the flower motifs on the body that you mentioned .
going to check for a better pic,
and here is the professionally taken picture of the bonhams vase
we are all here to learn and as they say, everyday is a school day
thanks for the reply's
to highlight what i was saying about light conditions and or some colour distortion from the cameras
here is other pictures of a vase, the same vase in both pictures taking with different cameras in different light conditions
these two pictures are of the same vase but look so different, the first picture looks like an imperial product and the second looks like its pretending to be an imperial product but both arte the same vase.
with that said,
I sincerely hope whoever bought the original jiaqing vase this post was started about, takes the vase to a qualified expert
Learning247
Point taken. The unfortunate thing is, that when buying off of EBay we are deprived of two important senses, touch and seeing in person. And if purchasing on EBay, I’ve learned to be a sceptic about almost every thing. And I also hope that who ever bought the vase in question proved us all wrong for the money they paid. And yes, the day you stop learning is day it all ends.
Heres a thought, perhaps I should start a category here on the FORUM titled, "Things I'm Thinking of Buying" or "Things I've seen, should I buy it?"
Good idea? Or no?
Best Peter
Peter
Yes, definitely!
Birgit
That would be great, Peter!
That sounds like a category that could potentially cause bad feeling and argument.
I like the idea Peter.
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