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hello everyone, good morning!
I believe everyone bought fake sometimes in his career of collection. To prevent further buying fakes, we need to improve our knowledge, but we also need a honest seller’s market. As everyone knows, There are millions of fakes in Ebay and LiveAuctioneers. Many of the sellers intentionally list fakes as authentic ones with well-known antique store’s labels, old purchase invoices, provenance information, etc. But their only purpose is to cheat buyers. Some of their fakes sold for tons of of money. it happens everyday in LiveAuctioneers. I couple of years ago, I called LiveAuctioneers and asked them to allow buyers to refund the fakes, or at least to have a place to allow buyers to comment the sellers, but I was rejected. So, I do not buy anymore from LiveAuctioneers.
Today, I bring up this topic and see if any of you have good idea to stop it, or at least let more collectors know about those fake sellers, especially those big sellers.
Thanks
Charles
Cj
It's a buyer beware business. It has been for a long time. People sell houses and automobiles all the time with latent defects and try to conceal them - its a very similar idea. It's always good to get an expert opinion and deal with a trusted source, that's why some auction houses have some great reputations.
Liveauctioneers is full of bad stuff, yes, but it is a public platform, not an individual seller. There is a lot of very, very good stuff listed on there too. Any public platform is susceptible to this.
I honestly think the best thing to do is to know as much as you can through research.
It is what it is!
Just bear in mind, buying off sites other than eBay you have no mechanism to enforce returns if the items are fake. You are 100% on your own.
Peter
Peter
One thing I can recommend is the paypal mastercard. It allows you to use paypal for regular credit card purchases, thereby adding an additional line of defense to regular card company. ...I believe you must have a business account with Paypal to qualify though...
It is what it is!
Hello everyone
sad part about fake when they full the large auctions house and most experienced collectors
And some of the fakes on market are over 100 years old . so all you can do is get as much knowledge
as you can ,and like peter said buy from eBay and where they stand behind what they sell.
The very reason we started the weekly News Letter four years ago was to share hand-picked things we feel comfortable with suggesting. Often sellers have four or five fakes mixed in with authentic examples, due to inexperience and -or duplicity, so that needs to be kept in mind as well.
Once you get beyond major auction houses Sotheby's Christie's and Bonhams, the chances of being presented with fakes and misdated items leaps massively. Including operations like Skinners in Boston and Freeman galleries. Skinner's is less than an hour from here, I've only bothered to attend a handful of their Asian sales over the last 20 years. Sad to say, they too have sold a mountain of fakes and questionable material.
Best, Peter
Peter
Selling fakes as real happens in every auction house. An Chinese business man spent million dollar on an old Chinese calligraphy from Sotheby or Christie's (can not remember which) a couple of years ago, when back to China, majority of Chinese experts believe it was a late copy. They published their research in press. There are no direct reference for some rare antiques, making wrong judgment of age is understandable. However, some auction houses intentionally fool buyer by making fake provenance documents and support information to cheat buyers. To me, that is criminal.
Charles.
Cj
IMO, authenticity can vary from expert to expert. I have had some auction houses pass on a piece and others fall in love. This happens with other forms of art too. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/art-news/7309299/Christies-sued-for-misidentifying-Titian-painting-worth-millions.html
Get a consensus of multiple experts before you ever get rid of piece that you yourself feel confident about.
From my experience, I would weigh the opinions of North American and UK experts on Chinese artifacts more heavily than the opinions of experts in China. Although the artifacts were created in China, we have a longer history of studying them during the 20th century, and things like this do not really happen in the US ( https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/jul/17/jibaozhai-museum-closed-fakes-china ).
It is what it is!
hello collectingasia,
The museum you linked is not a “real” museum. In last decade or two, A lot of new museums were built by private/collectors. Some of the owners actually have no antique background, they collected fakes as real. Some museums, it was reported, using museum as “money washer” tools, wash fakes to real. However, real museums in China, generally owned by city, province, and state, only exhibit antiques that excaved from old tombs, or antiques having accurate historical documents.
Charles
Cj
Good point, the Chinese Gov't actually closed down one or maybe more of these museums showing fakes. However, many of the top collectors have started their own privately funded museums which are full of great things.
The felow who bought the Changhua Chicken cup for 35 million has several of them,
Chinese Billionaire Collector Liu Yiqian Launches Another Museum, It's his third museum in four years.
You do need to be careful one which one you go to.
Best Peter
Peter
Hello peter
I use Avery Brundage collection Asian museum and Vermeer files and your site
It bad when fake bring more than real one on eBay
A couple other great sites you might put on your list is
and the Freer Sackler Collection in Washington DC and many others can be found HERE.
Scroll down the page for links to a bunch of online sites. Under
More Reference and Research Sites | Favorites,
The page also has other links you might find useful.
Best Peter
Peter
Thank, peter
I also use Victoria & albert museum . It help with the Chinese sile that
England and Europe was producing
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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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