The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
Hi all,
I want to share a complete composition of an extravagant American-market Chinese export porcelain tea and dinner service. I will post later when I have more time how this juxtaposes against the smaller European Chinese export services, but I thought you all might like imaging the breadth of a wealthy American China trader's dinner table. The following is derived from a primary source invoice from 1796. While researching my Derby plate, I purchased photocopies of every inbound invoice to Salem, Massachusetts from Derby's enterprise, but since I can't share it, I will provide its general contents. In the end, I provide the composition of a smaller less extravagant tea service meant for resale in America for the ordinary person.
Derby's 101-piece tea service is comprised of the following (purchased in China at $17 for the entire set):
- 1 tea pot (3 pieces)
- 2 ditto and stands (6 pieces)
- 2 milk ewers (2 pieces)
- 2 sugar pots and stands (6 pieces)
- 1 slop bowl (2 pieces)
- 1 tea canister (2 pieces)
- 1 coffee pot and stand (3 pieces)
- 12 coffee cups and saucers (24 pieces)
- 18 tea ditto (36 pieces)
- 6 breakfast ditto (12 pieces)
- 1 butter boat (3 pieces)
- 2 cake platters (2 pieces)
Derby's 171-piece dinner service is comprised of the following (purchased in China at $50 for the entire set):
- 1 large fish dish (2 pieces)
- 2 dishes (2 pieces)
- 2 ditto (2 pieces)
- 4 ditto (4 pieces)
- 4 ditto (4 pieces)
- 4 ditto (4 pieces)
- 4 ditto (4 pieces)
- 72 flat plates (72 pieces)
- 24 soup ditto (24 pieces)
- 1 tureen and dish (3 pieces)
- 2 salad dishes (2 pieces)
- 4 sauce tureens (12 pieces)
- 6 pudding dishes (6 pieces)
- 18 dessert plates (36 pieces)
- 4 salts (4 pieces)
- 4 sauce boats (8 pieces)
The coffee pot without the stand that fueled my theory is at the Peabody Essex Museum. It is plausible that my plate could be one of the two cake platters (red). For reasons stated in the prior post, I don't believe my plate is part of the dinner service, nor is it one of the 18 dessert plates. Although I wouldn't characterize the reticulated plate as a "platter", there is an acknowledged inconsistency with the way the word "platter" has been used throughout history. For example, in "Documentary Archaeology in the New World", Dr. Beaudry notes this difficulty in classifying these:
"One person's plate is anothers charger and another's dish. If nothing else, this situation is embarrassing."
On the term "platter", Dr. Beaudry notes the following:
"If the terms platter, dish, plate, and saucer denote vessels differing primarily in size, where do the breaks come? . . . There is some evidence that [platter] was on some occassions synonymous with oval dish. . . It would seem then that platters were dishes that were either very large, or oval, or both. As the distinction between platter and dish even then unclear, platter has been excluded from [her categorization scheme]."
As I read through the invoices, I understand Dr. Beaudry's difficulties. In the same service, Derby refers to the fish dish (blue) as a "dish", but applies the same term to the undoubtedly smaller and circular-shaped pudding and salad dishes. He also uses the term "dish" to refer to the stand of the tureens, but previously uses the word "stand" for pieces in the tea service.
Additionally, Derby has a noticeable inconsistency in describing each piece. For example, the teapot is three pieces, which should be only two pieces. Has anyone seen a three-piece teapot (orange)? This indicates the word "stand" is dropped accidentally. He does the same with the slop bowl, (the word "stand" is dropped although he includes it for other slop bowls in other services).
These inconsistencies + Dr. Beaudry's observations make it difficult for me to discount the reticulated plate (as we now would describe it) as one of the "cake platters" based solely on the word "platter". Although, Jorge Welsh might refer to the reticulated border as "Linglong" given his 2004 publication dedicated to this type of pierced work. Unfortunately, it is the only piece in which Derby uses the word platter so there is little to compare it to.
Also noteworthy is the use of stands for the coffeepot. This is unheard of anywhere in the current literature, and after speaking to several Chinese export porcelain dealers, this is unheard of and never would've had a stand. But what could the individual stand for a pistol-handled cylindrical coffeepot look like? There was the pattipan for teapots and possibly sugar pots and milk ewers, although a pattipan would not fit the dimensions of the cylindrical coffeepot. More research is ongoing, although it is unlikely to be resolved. Just like the purpose of the reticulated plate, I think this has been lost to time. I wonder if the coffeepot stand could've been a reticulated plate like mine?
Other services ordered:
1) 3 boxes of 16 tea sets per box, each set comprising 43 pieces (purchased in China at $2 each set):
- 1 tea pot (3 pieces) - likely included a stand
- 1 milk pot (3 pieces) - likely included a stand
- 12 tea cups and saucers (24 pieces)
- 1 sugar pot (3 pieces) - likely included a stand
- 1 slop bowl (2 pieces) - likely included a stand
- 6 coffee cups (6 pieces) - did not mention or count saucers
- 1 tea canister (2 pieces)
Now that I'm working on it again, I don't want to get too repetitive because there are at least 6 variations of tea sets ordered at various price points for this single invoice, so if anyone's interested in an analysis between the sets, let me know. No mention is made of the decoration, so the price points may be due to more elaborate decorations in addition to compositions. Can y'all imagine buying a $2 teaset from China? According to an inflation calculator, "$2 in 1796 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $43.80 today, an increase of $41.80 over 226 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 1.38% per year between 1796 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 2,090.22%."
I hope it was interesting!
Kind regards,
John
Jesus, imagine having to do the dishes after the holiday party.
In the semi gloom with small windows on an overcast day (or in the dark with smoky candles) in the basement as many scullery maids had to work, no less. No nice rubber gloves, either. (I picture this happening in Georgian House in Edinburgh).
Hi John,
I was taught that the pots with the handle at a right angle were chocolate pots but it seems it's a coffee pot as well.
Imagine the thrill when the set finally arrived! The long unpacking and then the admiration and the sense of smug pride at the first dinner party!
Yes, I imagine the wait was agonizing, then you hear it went down going around the Horn or off Cape Hatterus, I imagine they ate the loss and just had to reorder and wait again. Of course, most of it may have come through English or Dutch merchants?
@sharonp People had more patience back then. They had to! And yet life was typically shorter with fewer diversions.
Latest Post: silver enamel jar with jade what is it a candy jar Our newest member: James Close Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.