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Taking everything into account, I think you’re doing the right thing, Erroll. Sometimes it is best to just walk away, accept that it has happened and to let the anger and frustration dissipate.
Life is full of challenges and unjust ‘events’, and one must choose one’s battles. I know people that are constantly fighting everything, they are always tired and unhappy. As you say, one’s health etc is far more important than weeks of hassle and frustration.
I’ve made some whopping mistakes when buying, Ive also had some amazing successes. It all evens out in the end I reckon, we always profit from the experience.
Nic
Thanks Nic:
SD has provided good advice regarding this matter. I just wanted to confirm though that PayPal does not pay the shipping costs for returning damaged items. I'm excerpting the following from a message I received from PayPal this morning in response to yet another protest from me about this matter:
"With PayPal Buyer Protection, we help you to recover funds from sellers who deliver goods that are 'significantly not as described', or in other words, goods which do not match the original description. In keeping with our PayPal Buyer Protection program, we ask that you return the item to the seller so that we can issue a refund to your account. Without return delivery confirmation, we will be unable to issue a refund. PayPal does not cover the cost of returning the item. Please upload the proof of shipment by 30 May 2019. If you fail to provide the documents within the given timeframe please note that we will close this claim in the seller's favor.".
So, here we have a case in which the following apply:
1. I acquired a fragile item at auction in good faith;
2. It was sent to me wrapped in a thin layer of cardboard and a single layer of bubblewrap. It would have been a miracle if the item had not been damaged in its transatlantic journey to the USA from the UK;
3. As I have mentioned the cost to me of returning the item including a shipping cost (about $60) and a further $30 for shipping supplies (peanuts alone cost $25/bag here) would be about $90;
4. As I see it, I wanted this item and am now being penalized because of the seller's negligence while the seller suffers no loss at all.
As far as the lesson to be learned is concerned, SD's description of eBay policies indicates that with eBay after one returns a damaged item (and pays for the costs of the return) eBay will arrange for a full refund INCLUDING SHIPPING AND RETURN COSTS after the seller receives the damaged item and the buyer provides proof of the costs incurred. I have not confirmed that for myself. Anyway, if all of this is true, it would appear that anyone else experiencing this kind of problem should file a claim with eBay rather than with PayPal (as I did) in the hope of being made whole.
Regards,
Errol
Hi Errol,
yes, I would instinctively go through eBay. But I do remember a conversation here some months back where someone did go through PayPal, possibly because eBay was not cooperating. But I don’t remember the details.
Ultimately, both PayPal and EBay in the UK would have to give a refund if the item is ‘not as described’ or ‘not suitable for the purpose for which it was intended’, it is enshrined in law. Both EBay and Catawiki also refund return postage IF the seller wants the item back. Refunding return postage is company policy, rather than common law, which is why PayPal is not obliged to conform.
Nic
With ebay, there is a requirement for communication with buyer and seller. It is in fact policy that a seller communicates with the buyer when there is an issue, if they fail to communicate ebay will more than likely find in your favour. Ebay prefers buyers and seller work things out.
Here is how the ebay system works
What happens after you've started a return
The seller has 3 business days to get back to you. How they respond depends on the reason for your return.
Who pays for return shipping?
The seller pays for return shipping if the item was damaged, faulty, or doesn't match the listing description, or if they offer a free returns policy.
You pay for return shipping if you're returning the item because you changed your mind, and the seller's return policy states that buyers are responsible for return shipping.
Hi Errol -
I only hope that, having gone through all these emotions, your framers knowledge and expertise enables you to 'enjoy' this watercolour ...
Stuart
Hi SD:
Yes this seems like a fair policy to me. Certainly, if one returns an item simply because one has buyer's remorse I don't think the seller should have to pay for the return.
Errol
Hello Stuart:
Thank you and I hope so too. The remounted watercolor should be available next week and I'll have a better idea then whether it's worth spending more on a good frame for it and a high-quality matte border.
I have bought one other other framed item on eBay at auction. It was an antique "forbidden stitch"silk fabric. Although it arrived intact I realized the frame (which was very flimsy) and the matte border (which was somewhat dark in color) did not do it justice (see photographs of the original below). It needed a gilt frame with underlying red tones. Also, as the framer pointed out the fabric was in direct contact with the glass. They therefore needed to install small "lifters" to leave a gap between the glass and the fabric and they did that. Also, I had non-glare museum glass installed to limit the effects of ultravioltet light and to prevent fading, but the framer retained the original Chinese hanger. I also chose a matte border that was similar in color to the ground of the fabric. In retrospect, the original framed "forbidden stitch silk fabric" was not that bad, but I'm much happier with the new frame and glass although it was not inexpensive to get all of this done.
I think that with antique framed items many will need reframing and will also need remounting so that one can be sure that the mounting material does not cause deterioration of the fabric or the painting over time. Framing techniques have come a long way since the Qing period!
My damaged painting is in the hands of the same framer and I'll post a photograph of the painting here after it has been reframed. I'm reasonably confident that this will turn out well.
Kind regards,
Errol
That is stunning Errol. You really are very professional about these items. They are best placed in your hands.
Hi SD:
I probably am eccentric, but I very much doubt that I can be justifiably classified as a genius art-expert although I'm sure you meant that in a kindly way. I'm more like what the French would describe as a dilettante when it comes to Chinese art. I'm glad you liked my framed forbidden stitch item. It is somewhat different than other more conventional items one encounters in Chinese art.
Regards,
Errol
Hi SD:
I probably am eccentric, but I very much doubt that I can be justifiably classified as a genius art-expert although I'm sure you meant that in a kindly way. I'm more like what the French would describe as a dilettante when it comes to Chinese art. I'm glad you liked my framed forbidden stitch item. It is somewhat different than other more conventional items one encounters in Chinese art.
Regards,
Errol
I was jesting in a kind way and you are meticulous and assiduous with the antiques in your care. So it is a compliment. Yes that picture looks amazing and final detail of getting non glare museum glass is brilliant. That is dedication. Also it is good movie anyways.
Hi Errol -
The silk fabric looks just beautiful - a very professional, high quality job by your framer ... Always good to know such skilled restorers ...!!
Fingers-crossed the damaged watercolour can be also be salvaged ...
Stuart
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