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Hello! Thank you to all of those who have helped me in my learning process so far. I've been watching videos, reading all the posts and really trying to refine my skills.
As a beginning collector, my collection is limited to 18th/19th century porcelain. Including Qianlong, Rose Medallion, Rose Mandarin, Fitzhugh. I thought I was pretty good at spotting the clearly 20th century copies of these pieces. Some can be moderately expensive, hundreds of dollars. I am trying to understand how widely copied these pieces are. Is anyone actually copying these pieces with the same level of detail of the 19th century? From what I've seen, copies are very crude and I can spot them right away. Do I need to actually be worried any of these are faked?
I know Peter is very weary of auction houses that aren't Sotheby's, Christies, Bonham, etc. Do I need to be worried about buying these patterns at other, regional auction houses?
Thank you for your input!
Hi,
It is hard to say whether or not you should be worried if your items are fakes without actually seeing them. My feeling is that it sounds like you know what real items look like and would use your judgment and experience to assess items you come across.
I would not be at all worried about shopping for old pieces in smaller auction houses etc: far more chance of getting a good price, interesting items often crop up and whilst some might be copies, if you do get caught out, the outlay will at least have been less.
Wherever you shop, whatever you are buying, remember to buy what you like and to do your research well, but don't be too hard on yourself if you get it wrong sometimes, we all do: some fakes are very good and some copies are very nice. ?
Julia
The vast majority of export pieces would not be worth faking . That being general not a fast rule , obviously some high quality wares like top armorial pieces have been known to be faked .
Thank you, very helpful! I am speaking about export wares. My understanding is that most of these are probably okay, but I was worried when Peter's videos are so cautionary!
The impression I get is that beginners like us are far more likely to buy something that is of the period but, for one reason or another, is not worth buying? This could be because it is damaged or a very common item. Fakes are more of an issue when you enter the ‘big league’?
We are of course at risk of thinking we’ve spotted a piece that’s worth £5000 for sale for £50. I try to err on the side of negative caution and assume everything is fake until I can prove otherwise. Mind you, this is easier said than done when you see a ‘bargain’ or something you really like!
Nic
I agree with you, Nic. Of course fakes are always a danger, but the real beginner‘s trap is amassing items that you don’t like later, because they are average or damaged.
If it doesn’t bore you, here’s what I did when I began collecting. I bought some high quality items in the most renowned auction house in my country. I didn’t know much about porcelain then but got some very nice things that kindled my interest to learn more. I still have these items, they are gaining in value and were a good investment to start with.
As a next step I bought a lot of cheaper items from Ebay and other sources: Kangxi saucers, Fitzhugh, Qianlong tea cups, Batavia, Amsterdam bont, Rose mandarin, Swatow... whatever. Not valuable but always in the best condition I could get and only what I found appealing.
So I have some high quality items for investment but also a collection of small items from about every time and style that help me to judge and appreciate other items.
Well this is just how I did it and everyone has to find his own approach to collecting. I would however strongly advise you not to buy badly damaged items.
Birgit
Yes! @shinigami that is exactly what I am trying to do-- build my collection with cheaper Fitzhugh, Rose Mandarin, Qianlong, armorial. Are these items often faked? I am not sure how cautious I need to be with buying those items from ebay/regional auction houses. My belief was that these things are usually okay. I'm not sure if that is fair belief or not
These export items are sometimes faked but not as much as the really expensive things. Export porcelain was never intersting to Chinese collectors, and that's where the big money is. The greater danger is, as Nic already said, to buy damaged or low quality stuff that will not give you joy every time you look at it. You have shown a lot of pictures here but I don't remember there was a fake among them. If you're not sure about a special item, you can always ask here in the forum before you buy. As soon as you own some of these items you will learn to judge others by them, so you don't need a huge collection to get the feeling for fakes.
Birgit
I disagree with the general sentiment here - I think everything now is being faked , and increasingly you see 'export' type crackle ware vases, prunus and cracked ice pattern wares and sometimes rose canton which are brand new. They don't appeal too much to chinese buyers, but if you can produce a item for a few dollars and sell for 10 or more times the cost abroad, then it's still worth it.
Rose canton and rose mandarin is harder to fake because of the complicated patterns and multi-colours; much easier to knock off a crackle ware warrior vase or several, but still extreme caution in every category should be exercised. I see here in curio markets all types of chinese porcelain, inc export wares, which are all fakes,
On the question of regional antique auctions, with export ware for sale, again this is a minefield because sellers (local with a source in China presumably) will place fakes in the most obscure places and sometimes regional auctions have no expertise or don't care if buyers get snared. So never act on the assumption that 'it's probably safe' or something could not be a fake because of the style - begin from the belief that it probably is , and then find reasons why it could not be modern (genuine wear, colours, porcelain quality, footrim, shape etc).
tam
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