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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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Damage on Sang de b...
 
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[Solved] Damage on Sang de beuf Footrims

 
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7256
05/05/2022 4:07 pm  

I think it is very shiny, too, Brian. I thought I had written that but it has disappeared. I probably pressed delete, I find typing on my phone fiddly.


   
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Craig
 Craig
(@craig)
Honorable Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 313
06/05/2022 2:04 am  

Thanks for the new pictures. This is called "Jun Red" in Chinese.  (Not the same Jun kiln from the Song Dynasty of course, just the same character.) It was an early 18th c. JDZ invention. They used lead to make the glaze extremely glossy. It also hides scratches well. You can see the gloss on this one:

image

Here's the foot:

image

It's dated as "mid-Qing", but sorry only in Chinese.

(@webboy) That amount of damage on the foot is normal. I don't really see anything in the pictures that says it's not 19th century, but the catch is that they're still made like this today. You'd want to see it in person to be sure. Or else trust the dealer.

This post was modified 3 years ago 2 times by Craig

   
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
06/05/2022 4:10 am  

@webboy 

Hi Martin - 

Thanks for the additional images ...

As with Tim and Craig, the size, proportions and shape would indicate this could be a mid/late 19th example ...

However, as Brian and Julia mentioned, the glaze does appear rather 'shiny' and highly reflective - personally I would want to see/handle to confirm it's not a modern reproduction ...

Stuart 


   
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
06/05/2022 6:43 am  

@webboy 

Hi Martin - 

Live from Bonhams KB London …

For comparison:- Lot 187, a very large vase H. 58.5cm, attributed to 19th C in catalogue … 

Stuart 

A197593E 0C0B 42E9 B087 F4A27F828C21
D353301C 55F6 4021 BCD1 43A11CDC9D35
B8E9D1EC D8E6 4F87 819C D0483DBF5325

   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
06/05/2022 9:05 am  

Here is my copper red very large monochrome I can’t pin a date because the glaze stops at edge of base was only chipped at one spot.

A8ADA308 C62A 4CFE AD33 5ABFEEF3D6D0
7752AB56 C9F6 422B B202 3CDD82DBF016
AEAA2A2A B4FB 4AA8 A3D1 767EB0C703A4
424819CE CE4F 4485 92F8 6BE9DBB495E6
9660FC92 4B24 4A07 A8A7 07580B1B621E

 


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
06/05/2022 9:18 am  

Generally I keep away from commenting on monochrome wares as the copies are very well done and difficult to distinguish. 

However @lotusblack yours looks great and authentic. Its also earlier i believe than the other one in the discussion.

Mark 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
06/05/2022 9:34 am  

@imperialfinegems I got this one in Aspen Colorado from a millionaire estate about 10 years ago the owner said she didn’t want to hall it to the thrift store I think I paid $150 at the time. Another thing is this pot was coiled you can see reflection the coiled are present it’s also very heavy

This post was modified 3 years ago by Brian Crowe

   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
06/05/2022 9:42 am  

@lotusblack,

Hi Brian,

Well worth having it appraised by Peter.

Have you had it checked out by Peter/other?

Mark 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
06/05/2022 10:01 am  

@imperialfinegems never had it looked at because it’s so big and like many monochromes I own it’s a difficult area. I did have one person tell me the base was darkened by the wood kiln that the vase was so big they probably had to over fire the lot. He said had the foot been white like smaller pieces he would had been concerned etc electric kiln. Also not sure what the numbers are they don’t look like a date

This post was modified 3 years ago by Brian Crowe

   
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Craig
 Craig
(@craig)
Honorable Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 313
06/05/2022 11:36 am  

Hey Brian @lotusblack,

With the usual caveats that these are especially tricky to verify, I think this could be 19th century, possibly earlier as Mark suggested. It looks like the glaze control was better, stopping neatly above the foot. It wasn't filed down was it? This small area here looked like it was possibly filed, but you'd need to look closely to tell.

Brian's vase

Aside from that, try using a loupe to examine the unglazed edge of the foot. I bet you'll see some tiny "micro" scratches, maybe some little nicks and dings. Those would be very good signs of age.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
06/05/2022 11:55 am  

@craig thanks I do see that the glaze in areas there it hit the foot was cleaned up with horizontal file mark there are also micro scratches and dings but the bottom was not filed all around 

This post was modified 3 years ago by Brian Crowe

   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
06/05/2022 12:04 pm  

I did find this comparable after Mark got me thinking it’s identical.

36D5532E 74CF 4F9A A0D7 84B2374D4AE4
A7044611 1E2D 4AF0 871E DB3B61447A1F

 


   
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