The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
Sorry, I should have provided one earlier. Good luck, please let us know what Peter says.
https://bidamount.com/chinese-antiques-identification-assistant-inquiry-service
Figure doesn't look as "new" knock off.
To compare with decent auction houses, it's not fair, as just very finest pieces are sold there (mainly). Many kilns, many different quality porcelain were produced.
I agree, which why the Shangri-la one is a perhaps better comparison. Finer hands, feet and faces can sometimes simply reflect a difference in quality rather than age. However, on the other hand, there is usually less concern over uthenticity and sometimes there is useful information.
@julia I was looking at the link you attached.
the figurine has very similar workmanship, the face is not very detailed and not as sharp as mine; is Shangri-la reliable? The base I can't tell, I think for the whole Jiaqing period, because they are often described that way but I'm not sure.
As 'lucky' says, sure it is not original but from a more popular furnace?
@julia Sorry but I did not understand what you mean by the last sentence, I am not very well versed in English.
On quality I usually always adopt a reasoning: if I were a forger I would try to align myself as much as possible with the items on the market and on the mid- to high-end ones.
@giliu forgers fake everything to trick inexperienced buyers. Yours was created by such forger. He most likely owned an original and produced a mold from it. That why your lacks the fine details. The giveaway on your piece is the clear glaze over the enamels this is not typical of antique originals. The mold was not perfect this is why the arm is messy. Ask why is the unfired side so dark but the fired side is lite do the enamels show strong color or look faded. Where are the vent holes? Are there finger marks on the inside cavity. But most important you must find a comparable from a reputable source in Asian art it is fake until it’s not.
@giliu Go to Bidamount homepage to the tan box that is headed Want to know more about an item you own, click on Identification Assistant and follow the steps.
Several sets of these figures were sold at the Ann and Gordon Getty auction for ridiculously high prices. Forgers pay attention to auction results and can fairly rapidly get new products into the marketplace. Also, these figures don’t take a lot of skill to recreate in large quantities.
@lotusblack Brian, with no disrespect in anyway- you see fakes everywhere and in every direction. Sometimes, feels that there are no real items anymore, no matter what & how.
@lucky I see more fakes than not yes we have stores in Denver that are warehouses full of fakes. Real authentic pieces pretty much stand out I find more authentic pieces offline. Are you saying you see more authentic items than fakes? I have been doing a lot of study on fakes more fakes are sold each year than authentic so I have adopted a rule it’s fake until it’s not.
@Giliu yes, Shangri-la are reliable. In this case my only concern is that the pieces they chose to use as positive comparisons (the ones in the Rijksmuseum) look better quality and are possibly earlier than the piece they are selling in the link I gave you. That doesn't mean they are wrong, I simply do not have the knowledge to make up my own mind from those photos. However, that item is the most like yours of all the ones I have seen today.
If you let me know what sentence you didn't understand I am happy to re-write it if you like. Sorry, I do know from experience how difficult it is trying to keep up with conversations in other languages, but sometimes it is easy to forget when you are using your most familiar language. 😊
@lotusblack Well Brian, in my eyes - sold item as authentic - is authentic unless proven as fake, not other way around. And personal opinion is personal opinion, we all have a right to have one and we have to respect that.
Person is saying that figurine was purchased @Catawiki as Qianlong/Jiaqing object. Would be interesting to see this LOT in real if possible? Would be interesting to see who is a seller and who did handled this LOT @Catawiki.
Even, considering that Catawiki experts miles away from being perfect, sale/purchase @Catawiki reduces changes that this figure is modern knock off, they do have expertise over there and I am not huge fan how sometimes they handle one or another situation, they do get paid good money I believe so, to get this right as much as possible. From my personal experience, if they do have even small doubts, object will be discarded as modern and not listed for sale at all.
Of course, there are more fakes these days instead of real objects for sale (that's why provenance matters when it comes to expensive items) but this doesn't means that everything is fake. It depends where you buy. And this figure, is not modern object. Probably will not stretch to Qianlong, but probably good enough to be Jiaqing. This is my personal opinion, and my knowledge is very little when comparing to "what's real knowledge is" so shouldn't be taken as for a fact here, this is my personal opinion.
Brian, my point is within this message: there is no reason to state your personal opinion as a firm 100% fact, and possibly to upset person with idea in a head, that purchased figurine is modern fake, God knows how much was paid for this figure. And possibly running around like headless chicken as figure was inspected at "auction house" and been reviewed "by the expert".
Peace. ✌
@lucky I bought a listed mark and period Kangxi bowl from Catawikki for a good sum. With providence it was a copy inspected by two majors. So this entire speech falls flat. As for giving an opinion it’s just that an opinion but everyone here has had to deal with the fact that something they purchased is not authentic so I say you buy because you like it. If it is authentic a major and expert can give an appraisal how much you pay doesn’t make it authentic now I am open to changing my opinion because the slip does look correct. But I own several figures from many periods this one has issues. If you have a comparison to share I am all for changing my view that what this forum is data that leads to the facts one way or another. I have given reasons I believe it is not correct to me. These are facts not opinions for a collector to own authentic pieces for less we must all pay tuition. Nothing personal.
@lotusblack Facts are supported by the strong evidence (records, as text, video,etc.), anything else online, it's just words, opinion or "air" to breathe freely without any sort charge. And anybody, online, can say or be "anyone" - wealthy person, influent collector, super knowledgable person. Who knows, right? You can post a picture or 2, of "what you have" or " who you are", but in real life, this changes nothing.
When it comes to "experts" 5 different experts, and possibly 5 different opinions, unless "it's" obvious. Sounds about right. And anyone is free to believe what they want to believe in.
Will you be kind enough to show that fake Kangxi lot at Catawiki which you are talking about? And if yes - who are those people which did authenticated your purchase as fake? Just out of curiosity..
Would be very interesting to see what did you purchased at Catawiki as a Kangxi fake.
Brian maybe it's real? I mean you purchase and Kangxi lot after all..? I mean genuine object.
Not to defend @lucky or the statuette but usually, even in other issues, if it was a fake you would be matched with other results online. Finding another very similar object would support the copy and mold thesis, uniqueness would not. The fake created as unique, needs more effort and frankly more profit; the figurine cost not even $200.
However I am learning and all these notions are very useful to me, especially when arguing.
As for Shangri, @julia in my opinion, from what little I understand and from the lots he puts on catawiki, he doesn't really seem knowledgeable.
On the fact that there are many forgeries, this is established, I leave this link:
Latest Post: Erotic carved celadon? I must have lead a sheltered life, not seeing this before Our newest member: Mae Naylor Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.