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Hey all,
I'm beginning to collect scroll art to train myself on conditional value and regional productions.
I found this through a GW auction and I'm waiting to receive it. While the condition is clearly old, I'm hoping I can verify more details once its in my personal possession. For now, I just have the following pictures from the auction to go by.
Translation, origin likelihood, and potential age are highly appreciated!
@pbarski93 The scroll is possibly Japanese, but early Chinese and Japanese paintings often overlap stylistically.
Its’s not as old as it might appear. I wouldn’t consider it a fake, but an early to mid 20th c. copy made to look much older, essentially made to commemorate an older painting.
I’m basing my opinion on the rendering being a bit loose… more the work of a student, than a master. A genuinely earlier painting would only have been rendered by a master.
Here’s an image you posted if your painting…
Notice the waves are rather loose around the leaping carp. The face of the carp, especially around the eyes, is a bit sloppy.
Compare to a painting I own, presumed Japanese since it is unsigned, from 17th c or earlier…
Of course there are some variations in quality from one painting to the next, but it wouldn’t be that dramatic.
@greeno107 thanks so much for this reply!
Your intricate notes about the locale hand and styling applied to the comparison topic really helps me out here! I'll jot this down for my identification studies going forward.
Would the tearing of the skin off the scroll art be caused artificially in this event or would that have been due to bad storage conditions? It seems fresher since the paper appears white, but not sure since their camera photos aren't in good lighting.
P.S. Your painting is a really lovely work, where'd you happen to acquire it?
@pbarski93 I bought my painting about 5 years ago from a Boca Raton estate.... the previous owner lived in NY before moving to Florida, and was a client of Flying Crane Antiques, so they had a fantastic collection.
Regarding the tears, creases, and other signs of aging...
If the painting is a Chinese copy, then likely these are artificial. The Chinese have a history of copying paintings, Chinese and Japanese, as a part of learning to paint. However, even in the 19th c., Chinese artists were learning techniques to make their paintings appear older than they really were. Today, these aging techniques are used on copies of famous Chinese paintings, but not likely for Japanese copies.
Post a good photo of the writing...let's see if someone in the Forum can translate it, and then we may be able to determine how old the painting is, but I wouldn't expect it to be older than 1920's or so, and more likely 1970.
Very nice! That background info is wonderful! Definitely a good opportunity with that estate sale. I'm not quite there to do serious hunting at estate sales, but I'm gonna be looking into them soon with how this year goes.
Thank ye, I'll keep an eye out on future auctions and details. For the text photos, definitely want to and will! It could be a couple weeks simce it's pending to be shipped, but I'll leave this topic unsolved until then.
I'll try and transcribe the kangee to a more legible version and do my best to match up what it would likely translate to. I just wish I had a more clear photo of the mark but it seems to be barely there if it is per these photos.
Advice for you from an old scroll collector (Not old scrolls). but rather I’m an older person and a long time collector😀
Find a theme to specialize in. For instance my collection of scrolls focuses on Majestic Mountain Landscapes. I would rarely purchase any scrolls outside of landscapes whether old or not. If I had, I would have ended up with drawers full of scrolls ready to end up in the trash. I treasure every scroll I have purchased over the years.
Stick to a theme whether buying old or new scrolls. What do you enjoy?
George
@gfhandel hey George!
I love this statement!
I'm still very early into all of this. I'm a digital abstract artist and I've found influence in Asian art with my work in addition to collecting it. I'd like to collect a handful of various stylings by various artists, such as this artist, to help adapt and study my process. What I move on from I plan to resell on my shop and so on. Cheap, expensive etc. It teaches me. Flaws, imperfect concepts, bad handling, and simple failure of the medium teaches me. If I happen to find a golden egg in the wild, then all the more better to study while it's on consignment 😁
To be honest, I'm more of a fan of landscapes myself. I love and enjoy solemn depictions of the wilds, near or afar. I'd likely be branching into this direction as I move upward. Generally I find a lot of appeal in landscape styling from all sorts of mediums and periods. Still life contemporary is one of my stronger interests as well.
I'm going to be on the look out towards this direction, I like old styling, primitive and details around this nature more, but its going to be interesting to see where the future goes hand in hand with these.
Here's one of my recent examples I completed last week after about 2 years of pause while I found my persona a bit in this. *first signed piece.
I want to adapt into portrait styling and take some abject influence into custom scrolls when I'm ready to. Perhaps it's visible in this work, maybe not yet. What's your thoughts behind it?
Thanks for posting that again, George!
@pbarski93 I like your art. The lower section looks like an abstract mountain landscape for sure. Thanks for sharing. John
@johnshoe thanks John! I appreciate that statement a lot!
I wanted to setup this as a form of introspective work, the top representing my love for calm and peace, the middle for exploration and discovery, and the bottom for anxiety and fear.
The top reflects a twilight evening, but not as detailed as I wanted it to be, the middle is of a deserted landscape, and the bottom of mountainous landscapes and shadowy hills.
It's titled "Too much detail".
Additionally I add subliminal elements to my works depending on their nature. This one is a focus on "Read between the lines".
I won't hijack this thread or others for my personal works, but I figure while the topic gets left open til I get the scroll in for further photos, it's a good moment to do so.
Update:
Got the scroll in, here's some updated pics in better lighting to help show it more in detail. It looks like some severe water damage occurred at one point and drowned out the bottom of the painting a bit.
Darker photos is it in current lighting.
Lighter photos with standard camera settings applied.
Any translational help would be greatly appreciated!
Update:
Got the scroll in, here's some updated pics in better lighting to help show it more in detail. It looks like some severe water damage occurred at one point and drowned out the bottom of the painting a bit.
Darker photos is it in current lighting.
Lighter photos with standard camera settings applied.
Any translational help would be greatly appreciated!
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