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@gfhandel the date of 1937 would make since. This was the year of the Japanese war which after this time I heard porcelain pretty much stopped. Also is the year Wang Qi died. I’m thinking this could be a tribute piece in the style of. I’m pretty sure it’s not 1997. But you never know. Looking at pricing it seems all over the place could bring any amount it needs good data before I attempt to sell. If it is very rare I will keep it as my goal has been to collect high value items and sell the commons replicas and moderns. If everyone says it’s modern no matter how I feel it get sold as that. I’m not trying to be a dealer just a collector moving up.
In my eyes 1937 is a year that would fit to the painting style.
Birgit
Hi Brian,
In addition to what I may have said, um, elsewhere, it does occur to me that the fineness of the potting and painting of this vase reminds me of the Jurentang 居仁堂 -marked porcelains, supposedly made for Yuan Shikai (a Republican general who tried to proclaim himself emperor in 1916). In any event, it's a beautiful vase.
Regards,
John
@jjytlee thanks for the info I will research it. I know Republic porcelain is a hard topic. And everyone is going to defend their piece. I have had items that I thought could be authentic but with research and overwhelming evidence I have learned to change my view. I like to say all 10 people can’t be wrong. But I have had several occasions where a expert said copy and they were wrong. So I use data and science. As we all do and the data and science right now lead me to this piece being a Republic period vase without any other evidence to suggest different this should be respected. Its hard to read the books and watch the videos to be told what to look for and when you find that piece you were trained to find it’s never good enough. In America you are innocent until found guilty. I wish porcelain was real until proven fake. We have focused to much on authenticity and have forgotten artistry. Everyday I hear good pieces being labeled modern this trend that needs to be more conservative. And I’m guilty as such also.
Interesting view Brian, I say that because I try to focus on artistry and detail, but for me this vase, well, I just can't see it as because being comparable to pieces by Wang Qi. I have spent a couple of hours trying to learn something and maybe I am missing something but in my view, this vase is just not decorated to the same quality and there are things like the head of the child that look so different.
This is probably my failing, my novice eyes on Republic porcelain which frustrates me, so I do try to learn and obviously, being unskilled in this era, I can't really tell the quality of the porcelain, but I have to say I am not convinced by the artistic merit although I can clearly see it in other pieces by him and his peers of the Republic period.
I am not dismissing your piece or anyone's opinion as I have the utmost respect for contributors on this forum; I actually feel perplexed, and even a little upset, that I can’t see what you all do. I feel I am missing something, it is frustrating.
Additional thought: maybe I just don't like it enough to accept it is good? I try to view art objectively but maybe personal feelings do sometimes cloud the eye (and judgment).
Sorry for so many errors in the message above - ignore because on 2nd line, hope that is the only one I missed; I really felt quite upset with myself, writing that post. I am sure I will get over it. 😊
Hi Julia,
Your absolutely correct in your thinking.
This vase although a nice example is not anywhere near the quality of Wang Qi or Wang Dafan. It a attribute of sorts to the style.
It was and still is very common for artists to achieve the levels of these masters in style.
It is what it is in my opinion. Highly probable to be republican period with good detail but not a master piece.
Sometimes we put too much emphasis on quality and details like the masters. Such as the faces are wrong, the clothing is too thick or the calligraphy is too black and thick. Anything short of that is often labeled a fake or modern. Nothing could be further from the truth. Not every piece that was painted during this period was fantastic quality. And let's not forgetting the turbulence during the periods 1937 - 1945.
It is in my opinion a desirable vase of good quality painted in high probability during the Republic period. It has a market place. And is deserving of that.
Mark
In my opinion it is a staightforward modern fake.
Some may call it a ‘tribute’piece but really it is made to deceive.
The decorator concentrates so much effort to get the faces correct that the piece and others like it end up like caricatures; the rest of the decoration is sub standard and rarely gets looked at in comparison to the originals.
This type of Vase is ripe for EBay,eager buyers who couldn’t tell a piss from a shit are easy pickings for cynical sellers.
Vic
Thanks Mark - and having read what Vic says, I feel a whole lot better about what I am seeing.
@shine Dear Vic, here we usually say, "can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground," but that is for the more delicate, your fine old Anglo-Saxon descriptive language works, but have a pity for the poor purchasers who are being sheared, if I were not so tight, I would fall in your category. Thanks to being cheap, it is only a little wool they have gathered. Thanks for the laugh this morning. Sharon
Hey Vic you got any proof of what you just stated. Because it sound like your accusing me of something. As for your modern fake statement what’s modern to you did you get some special privilege to decide this and fake to deceive who being deceived? It’s a 20th century vase from in a particular style made in China from an known example had you researched a little you would have found this out. Here’s a original from Christie’s I guess a ripe modern fake.
My eyes Brian.
Best regards
Vic
I figured nothing to share but insults
I don’t insult you Brian,I’ve made mistakes and will no doubt make a few more in the future.
All I ask is that you open your eyes and stop focusing on the faces; look at foliage,clothing,depth of colour and subtlety of shading.
Vic.
@lotusblack I can't tell from the pictures of the inside if you can see any turning lines, ridges, etc, or if it is totally smooth in there?
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