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You are probably correct about the reflection, that is what I thought it was at first, too. I just like to make sure. To be honest, I was happy to accept Giovanni's opinion that it was ok, because he knows way more than me. However, so does Xin. so then I start to wonder about things that I wasn't overly comfortable with from my far less knowledgeable perspective, which is good and interesting for learning purposes - from a perspective of not being financially involved, of course.
@thomasumjohnson if it's finer example - should be similarities "out there". I tried to browse for similar as to yours - 0 luck so far.
I don't know much about Japanese footrims..Dutch - Chinese used to export blank export porcelain without any sort decoration - and Dutch people used to decorate Chinese porcelain themselves. In real it's Chinese porcelain item but decoration was done abroad - very often imitating Chinese decorations.
P.S. if you could get much better quality pictures on all key points as, paste, glaze, colors, footrim...would be good start.
That's what I also considered.
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I'm very curious why you don't see the difference. All examples you showed us here from auction houses and dealers are authentic Kangxi pieces. Just watch the brush strokes, the style, and the shading of the red colour.
And compare with yours.
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@xin_fawis The lighting.
"I'm very curious why you don't see the difference. All examples you showed us here from auction houses and dealers are authentic Kangxi pieces. Just watch the brush strokes, the style, and the shading of the red colour."
The one I "won" seems to have been photographed in shadow. Also the colour balance of the camera could be off. It is a small local auction house.
Also the close up photo was taken from the larger photo. I enlarged the photo myself and cropped in on it..
I've adjusted it on photoshop. It's obviously over done but you see the issue with the original photo:
you can see the dullness of the white in the original photo compared to the other examples.
One of my original reservations about it;s authenticity was the birds. The lines are much cleaner. And there is no muddiness to the paint. The birds are very cleanly painted.
@thomasumjohnson If the last photo is a realistic representation of the true color of your plate…. You bought wrong.
The last photo almost looks like famille rose, not yet in creation during the Kangxi.
Xin’s first remarks about the manner of rendering are the key to recognizing your plate is not Kangxi.
In comparing the details, there are several areas that lack the crisp details - the Phoenix on the borders. the simplified birds, the overall stumpiness of the plant and tree. The proportions are off.
The overall colors of the original photos you posted of your plate lack the crisp contrast created by the milk white porcelain of Kangxi - even in bad light, the contrast should be evident.
Looking more closely, the greens have a darkness/mud ones that one finds in layer copies.
I could go on, but doing so might infer you have a bad plate - it’s not bad… I think a nice 19th c copy, but not Kangxi.
@xin_fawis Sorry, you weren't talking about the colour but the shading... Here's a blown up picture of an area, but I haven't increased the pixel count, so you can actually see the pixels, compared to the other images.. You can see the other close ups have a lot more detail. I also increased the contrast to bring out any shading in the reds.
@greeno107 here's a good comparison of one taken in bad light with simplified birds:
https://cathy-hunt.co.uk/kangxi-famille-verte-porcelian-octagonal-plate#gallery-1
@thomasumjohnson The example you’ve shown is more elegantly rendered than yours. I’m sorry you don’t see the difference, but I understand how hard the nuisances of the design can be.
@xin_fawis I guess your original comment about the shape rings true. It has quite rounded edges. Thanks for your help. There were 3 other items in the lot for £480. I wonder if there's anything else of interest? here are the only photos available:
This is interesting. Here is an exact copy of the same plate made in the U.K. around 1780. It sold at bonhams..
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/10816/lot/76/?category=list
Dear all,
I am sorry but I have just realized that it happened once again, when I access the Forum the pages are not updated. When it happens, I have to log out and log in again, which is what I just did, and found all the long conversation happened after my last post in this thread. Sorry for that.
First at all, Tom, you said that you bought the plate based on my opinion about its back? I don’t understand that, my opinion based on its back was clearly saying that judging the dish based on the base alone was a total non-sense! Please re-read it:
“Well, it really seems that telling, telling again, repeating, and documenting why a detail alone is worth NOTHING, is a bad spent time! "Yes, the base looks Kangxi". And then? Does it mean that it is Kangxi? It is a non-sense question, sorry.”
If the dish will really turn out to be a copy, I am sorry, but please don’t say that you have bought it because of my first comment, which was not encouraging at all.
Said that, I have to say my opinion about all the comments.
First reaction after reading Xin’s opinion: Giovanni, once again you have to believe in your first impression!
My first impression, as said in my second post, was negative. I didn’t like at all the style of the flowers. But then the picture of the front was quite convincing, because I took into account that that picture is blurred, not crisp. Probably taken by a phone.
Now, the best to do is to wait the new pictures when Tom will have the dish in hands, then we will be in better conditions to judge. But it is true that some details are worrying, like for example the leaves. Will see.
But in any case, in my opinion I would like to exclude a Japanese or Dutch origin. In both cases the style of painting should look much different for what I have seen up to now.
The shade of Japanese enamels is completely different, and the style of European ware copying the Chinese too is different.
Dear Tom, please post new pictures when you will receivethe dish. It will be important a detail of the blue wing of the flying bird, taken with a light reflection on it.
Regards,
Giovanni
Dear Tom, in the meantime you did post the Bonham's European example. Clearly as I said, the European copies are immediately recognizable, the painting style is completely different.
@xin_fawis "It" just not there..No matter how much "you" want "this" to be true. It just not there. Very familiar feeling :)))
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