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@imperialfinegems $1400 doesn’t seem that much for such a work of art.
Hi Brian,
It wasn't expensive I think also.
Another one I was trying to buy in 2018 was better quality/condition and had its original cinnabar stand with a estimate of $1000-$1500. It sold for $7000. Listed as 19th/20th century.
@imperialfinegems The dense floral design is Ming style and likely 18th c. Genuine Ming cinnabar of that quality would bring $100,000 or more.
@lotusblack The price of $1400 reflects how fickle cinnabar collectors are about 19th c. pieces.
It's all very interesting. I honestly don't know much about cinnabar etc. So I appreciate your input.
It should have read 19th. Not 19/20th century.
It's interesting the base was marked with 'Ovington New York'.
They were importers of the finest wares. They started in the mid 1800's. Sometime time around 1920 they changed their name on labels to 'Ovington'. This was after all the original brothers had died.
So said vase would have likely have been sold during the 19th century century.
Of course back then I think the knowledge was not there with Chinese imports etc. Often things got misdescribed or misdated. Same scenario as that demon vase you kindly looked at once before for me that was incorrectly described as Republican period.
Mark
@imperialfinegems That Ming style vase is lovely.
Cinnabar is way under appreciated and really hard to find, so you’re not alone with having limited experience.
I’ve had less than ten piece in 12 years, compared to hundreds of porcelains. I am a very long way from an expert on cinnabar - just sharing a few tricks I’ve picked up along the way.
Hi Greeno,
I found your post very informative. I have found some "cinnabar" vases and other objects that do not seem to have much age, but do seem to be layered. An example is this vase, which I purchased as a pair in the late 1990's. It is definitely carved, and clearly has layering in the "cinnabar"...but I don't think it is really lacquer. I am sure it doesn't have much age, and think it is made of a layered composite of some sort. I think this is an example where layering and carving doesn't really mean quality or value.
What are your thoughts on this? Is this maybe one of the 1970's vintage cinnabar examples that you say actually have value?
Thanks,
Charles
Acetone test will reveal without question as to whether it is genuine or not. If the cotton turns red it's cinnabar. If not then it's resin.
Mark
Good idea, Mark. I had forgotten the acetone test. It did not turn the Q-tip red, so it is definitely resin. So I guess that is a good thing to keep in mind; carving and even layering does not necessarily mean real cinnabar lacquer. I suspect until I actually hold a real piece in my hand, I may not be able to tell them apart.
Charles
@kirby13 Thank you fit the kind words about my post!
Honestly, I’ve never used acetone on cinnabar… Interesting to know that it reacts with acetone.
This metal core pieces from the 1970+++ maybe layered and carved, but as you just found out, I don’t think they are made from cinnabar.
Genuine cinnabar has arsenic in it, quite unhealthy to be around, so since the mid 20th c, other types of lacquer or resin have been used to simulate cinnabar.
@greeno107 However, I have a vase that I purchased in 1992 in Beijing that passed the acetone test and I remember Tam saying some later pieces combined cinnabar with the layering of other material. He also cautioned me against wearing an old cinnabar necklace that also passed the acetone test. Sharon
Here are my pieces that passed the acetone test, the vase was not from the Friendship store but another shop allowed to deal with foreigners in Beijing. The necklace was purchased at an 'antique' shop on South Padre Island. I do not know if the vase was old stock or brand new, but I do remember Tam saying in newer things it could be mixed cinnabar and other layered. I seldom wear the cinnabar disk and then it is over clothing, I think you are fine wearing it as long as you do not get it in your mouth. The girls who suffered from mercury poisoning would put the tips of paintbrushes in their mouths when decorating items, or that was the story. As you can tell from the dust, the vase does not get handled a great deal. Sharon
P.S. A late physician uncle told us a story about one indication of arsenic poisoning had to do with the white half moon shapes at the base of your fingernails, it may have been a joke, since he had us all staring at our fingernails. I do know that a society beauty of nineteenth century St. Louis, called the Belle of St. Louis for her porcelain skin, died from arsenic poisoning from applying it to her skin. She has an elaborate tomb at Bellefontaine Cemetery. Sharon
@sharonp I think I heard that, too, that arsenic does something to your fingernails. I also heard cinnabar artists of the Ming dynasty were dying off left and right, as it wasn't until the 18th c. that they figured out that it was the arsenic in the cinnabar that was killing them. Sometime in the 18th c., an antidote was created.... but this is all anecodotal.... I've never seen proof.
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