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18th century Chinese Export flower basket pattern

 
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John Guerrero
 John Guerrero
(@bartholin)
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05/03/2022 12:08 pm  

I missed the "1" mark. That's really confusing since the foot of both look Chinese to me, especially the teacup. Although, this dotted wavy line is found on dozens of Chinese export porcelain services.

 

I still think it is Chinese, but I didn't know there was such a close analog in English Porcelain. That's very interesting, Vic! Thanks for sharing that! 😀  


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
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Posts: 4504
Topic starter 05/03/2022 12:39 pm  

@julia No there is a definite end line for the glaze before the foot rim, we will take a photo soon of the foot rims in better light, it is gloomy here again today, might be better to use the flash. Visitor coming for today, so I will be busy making King Ranch chicken and cake, yummy.


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
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05/03/2022 12:55 pm  

Have a nice day with your friends, Sharon.

John, there are quite a few similar English patterns from that era and they can be tricky to distinguish from Chinese especially just going by photos.  I thought the basket on Sharon's was quite a distinctive feature but I have yet to find a similar one from any country.

The simple explanation is of course that this is Chinese, I can't really see the foot rim clearly so it will be nice to see more photos.  The 1 is interesting but there could be an explanation for it but we may never know!


   
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John Guerrero
 John Guerrero
(@bartholin)
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05/03/2022 1:00 pm  

It's always fun having visitors over, and what a treat with King Ranch chicken! 😊 

I obviously have quite a bit to learn with Chinese export porcelain, but I love that there's always something new to dive into. I still think the 1 may be unintentional, but agreed - we will probably never know! 


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
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Topic starter 05/03/2022 2:40 pm  

@bartholin It is a gussied up version of King Ranch Chicken, which has nothing to do with the King Ranch from what I read, I add black beans and old fashioned long grain rice to the mix and I do not use rotisserie chicken (the chicken is roasting in the oven now). I had a tour of the King Ranch in the seventies, my husband had to go to Kingsville on business and a friend arranged a tour out there for me and my toddler (so not a long tour), but interesting. 


   
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John Guerrero
 John Guerrero
(@bartholin)
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Posts: 788
05/03/2022 2:55 pm  

I was wondering if it was related to Kings Ranch. That sounds amazing! I grew up about an hour and a half away from Kingsville. It definitely is interesting there, although I prefer fishing. 😀 


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
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Topic starter 12/03/2022 11:14 am  
IMG 8116c
IMG 8119c
IMG 8121c
IMG 8118c
IMG 8114c

Here are the better photos of the bases of the cup and saucer. Nice sunny day for outdoor photo close ups. Thank you. Sharon


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
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12/03/2022 2:37 pm  

It does look good for Chinese, the 1 may have to be put down as a red herring! 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4237
12/03/2022 8:01 pm  

I saw one with this mark the other day it was listed as French maybe this helps


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
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Posts: 4504
Topic starter 13/03/2022 2:29 pm  

@lotusblack Do you remember where you saw it and what it was called or did they just say France, I think Samson is usually marked and not with a numeral. Thanks.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
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Posts: 4237
13/03/2022 7:41 pm  

@sharonp it was a local antique shop it was several pieces all marked with what looks like a number 7


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
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14/03/2022 3:10 am  

That is why I said it may be continental. An English 1 is written differently, ours don't look like 7.  For me, the shape of the basket and the shade of red reminds me of something I have seen. I had a look yesterday, but as I can't remember whether what I am thinking of is Asian or European, it was slow-going and fruitless.  I did come across a beautiful chinoiserie plate by Swansea - very tempting, but shipping would probably be expensive!


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
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Topic starter 14/03/2022 9:24 am  

I am resolved that it is a mystery, there is no matching indentation on the cup base, but I do think it was intentionally made, few things are unique so I may come across the exact pattern one day. I will like it just as well if it is European and it can be classed as porcelain influenced by the Chinese. Brian saw similarly marked pieces in a shop but presumably a different pattern, so far the closest in design was the New Hall found by Vic, but the border design was different. If Contnental, not sure if New Hall was copying German, Dutch, French or Chinese or vice versa. Thank you all. Sharon


   
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