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Hi Xian, Birgit and Chris -
Well, I got that totally wrong didn’t I!!🙄😁😂 ...
My thanks to all for your thoughts and explaining the differences between the Chinese originals and the old Japanese copies of these Kraak wares ...
Very helpfully for identifying such and all duly noted for future reference!!🙂 ...
Stuart
I imagine forgers and imitators like Kraak ware to copy because of the loose and sketchy decoration. And yes, if you look at the bird's feet especially they're screwy.
This is a great place to discuss stuff like this. So helpful for my own education for sure!
And I'm glad you chimed in with the photos. Always important to get images of the real stuff to compare.
wanli Bird on a rock pattern.
I find Kraak porcelain to be very delicate and prone to hairlines.
it is as if you can feel the tension that the porcelain is under.
This is a mid 18th c Dutch Delft copy of s Rosewater Dish.
The centre is raised.
Considering this is earthenware it is extraordinary in its delicateness.
One of the things that looks different between the real ones and the one on Ebay is the foot rim seems sculpted with a flat edge whereas the Ebay example looks more rounded.
Hello everyone,
On many Kraak plates that I saw, the foot rim was more brighter, with a different shape and a different color (like some brown-grey). The shape of it like a polygon (with 2 or 3 sides, the third hidden inside the foot rim). The border of it seems to be always the same. Just like Shine fotos.
However I was surprised how it could be a less quality production for some pieces. The colors for some of them are very badly applied although it's Ming plates.
If this discussion has whetted your appetite for a real Kraak item, here are some reliable sources:
Birgit
Dear Xin,
as I said, there are some odd details. For this reason I too have considered the possibility that it could be a Japanese copy, but at the end I opted for the Chinese origin in lack of clear Japanese features, like for example the spur marks.
Another strong reason that make me think about a Chinese origin is the fact that, unless it has been treated by acids but I don’t think it is the case, the dish belongs from a shipwreck.
Are you aware of Japanese copies that have been recovered from shipwrecks? I am not sure but I think that I have never seen.
Regards,
Giovanni
Dear Giovanni and Steve,
another stylistic difference from Chinese Kraak plates is the very smooth and plain edge. This is a typical character for Japanese Kraak plates. Chinese Kraak plates always have a more or less scalloped rim / rim decoration, like the examples of Stuart and Shine .
Chris
Hi Titi -
Giovanni is correct, the quality of these wares varies considerably ...
Attached images of a very large bowl, D. 50.8 cm, with very beautiful, dense and intricate designs to the cavetto and rim, including ‘monster masks’, and a smaller dish, D.21.3 cm, with fish/aquatic plants, ten panels of auspicious plants/animals to the cavetto/rim and an ‘egret’ mark to the base. (There are only around sixty know Kraak wares with this ‘egret’ mark, all very high quality) ...
This dish, D 31.3 cm, is around middle quality, and was unearthed from a tomb dated to the thirty-first year of the Wanli reign (1603) in Nancheng, Jiangxi province in 1980 ...
And this dish, D.28 cm, of rather lower quality, was unearthed in 1986 from a tomb dated to the second year of Shunzhi (1645) ...
Stuart
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