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+1
I searched a bit online and couldn't find one japanese "kraak style" dish without spur marks.
Hi Springmeier and Giovianni -
Concur with your thoughts regarding base spur marks on these Japanese Kraak copies, I’ve looked also and they always seem to be present on such wares🤔?!...
As mentioned, I know very little about these wares and even less regarding Japanese copies of such, but the lack of these spurs was one of the reason, alone with the degradation glaze surface which, as Giovianni mentions does not appear artificial and would indicate this is a shipwreck piece, was why I thought this dish was Chinese ...
I, like Giovianni, would be very interested to hear Xian’s thoughts on this ...
Stuart
Don’t know much about Japanese porcelain, but can the missing spur marks be explained with the small size of the plate (21 cm)?
Birgit
Now I understand why I always hated Delft ware 🤨
There is Delft and Delft.
These are porcelain and probably not from Delft as the only remaining manufacturers is De Porceleyne Fles who are strictly porcelain makers not earthenware and mark their products.
Dear Vic,
so you mean that they are not Delft?
Anyway it doesn’t make a big difference. I know nothing about Delft or other factories, but I have to admit that I make a big mistake here, I have been completely fooled by the shipwreck appearance, and did not examined it as I should. The central decoration is in fact completely off.
I actually found strange since the beginning the bird, as was also outlined by Xin, but attributed it to the fact that Kraak ware is extremely variable in quality. But the true is that it is not only the bird, everything in the central panel is wrong, particularly the rocks.
Good lesson, it shows how a feature (the glaze degradation) can have a relevant influence on the overall judgement.
Giovanni
The thing that jumps out to me are the dimples in the surface on the front: in authentic firing spots you don't see a ring of white around them like you see here. This makes me think that the dimples were purposefully etched or scratched into the surface.
Concur with Vic and Birgit, the two Ebay 'Delft' dishes are modern, and probably Chinese copies of such ...
A few collectors I know also have Delft pieces, for comparison purposes, and they look nothing like these pieces. The blue tone is very different and, as Birgit mentions, the bodies and especially rims, are usually damage ...
Also agree with Giovanni comments - 'a good lesson' indeed!!
Stuart
The seller with the so-called 'Delft' kraak plates above is from the Netherlands and has a considerable stock of Dutch items for sell. However, there are several pieces in his inventory that are mis-attributed including a couple of evident Japanese Kraak plates that are also marked as 'Delft' and a Qing period Kraak plate marked as Wanli. So, as the say, "the jury is still out".
General speaking there was trade between Europe and Japan in 17th century. If you read about history of Japanese export porcelain. You will find some information about imitation of Kraak ware and export of them. So it’s possible and there must be some European or Japanese shipwrecks out there contain this kind of porcelain.
About this plate, it doesn’t 100% look like a shipwreck piece to me. I read your later comment and you may now aware of it, that the appearance of the glaze and so on looks similar to a shipwreck piece, but not really. I think it’s because the Japanese have different clay, different colour and glaze. The combination give us an illusion of shipwreck look. My guess.
I know you have found out the differences which I marked on the photo.
Another point, I mentioned the direction of brush strokes on this plate before. Look at the green lines, why this way, same direction? Not along the sketch lines. Why? Old print technique maybe?
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