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Hi everyone,
I've just listed a small cloissone cup on Ebay. I think it's delicate and beautiful and sad to let it go. My understanding is that it's late Ming (prior to 1640). Happy to ship worldwide from Australia and please feel free to take a look.
Rahul
Can we get the link so I can look at it. It looks Japanese to me.
Hi Brian, apologies I thought I’d included the link but here it is:
Thanks,
Rahul
Hi,
Do you have a close up of the brown coloured enamel. I can't get near enough to check, but it looks like goldstone. That would mean this is Japanese, as I read that the Chinese didn't manage to copy it until after 1960. Even if it is not goldstone, I am not convinced it is Ming. Do you have reason for thinking it is?
By the way, the link is there, but it is hard to see it as the colours aren't well differentiated.
Julia
Hi Julia,
Thanks for your note, I only have a camera phone but I've taken two images and hope this assists.
When I started collecting last year, this bowl was one of my first purchases and the dealer had sold it to me as Ming (just my bad luck then!). My tastes went in a different direction so unfortunately I've never learned anything about cloissone.
In this case, if you think it's Japanese, I would be grateful if you could advise on when you think this was made and I'll then update the listing.
Thanks again for your assistance.
Rahul
Thanks, Rahul. No need to apologise, phone cameras are great these days. However, I am still unsure, but I am not an expert and trying to judge from pictures can be tricky. I will just say what I am thinking and hope that someone else will jump in and add what they think.
In many ways it looks Chinese and I think it is. As for age, it shares some characteristics with Ming pieces, but also late Qing pieces. My main issues with a Ming date is that green (could be a screen issue) and the decoration eg the butterfly. There are a few other things but it is complicated as looking for comparisons brings up items that may have been misidentified.
As to whether it could be Japanese, yes, but if it is, I think it unlikely to be earlier than Meiji period. The brown in your photos is inconclusive, so the best I can do is suggest you compare with these photos. The first one is from a Meiji vase, note that it also has the same border above the glittery brown as you can see on yours. It will be worth checking to see if it appears on Chinese pieces, Ming or Qing.
This link below is to a late Ming bowl at Bonhams, compare that brown colour with yours as well.
https://www.bonhams.com/auction/21702/lot/192/a-cloisonne-bowl-late-ming/
Sorry, I can't be more conclusive. If I were selling it, I would probably title it "Old cloisonné cup. Ming? Qing? Meiji?" You can say it was so.d to you as Ming, but you are unsure.
Hi Julia,
Thanks for taking the time to provide this advice, you've been very kind.
I'll certainly study the information you have provided and the images to further my learning.
I like your suggestion about the listing and I have updated it accordingly.
Thanks again,
Rahul
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