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2 Antique Chinese Kangxi blue white porcelain plate signed 聚顺美玉堂制 ( $2,500 eBay fake?)
I'm a newbie trying to better train my eye spotting fakes on eBay. I found this piece and wanted to find out if it's a fake. Here's a link to the eBay (inc more photos) LINK
Here's a couple observations which make me suspect it's fake...
- Line art is very loose around the colour work
- Pairs are rare(?) and one is more aged / yellow than the other
- Artworks don't seem to compliment each other, one might even be larger than the other
- Marks on the backs have errors, not well aligned and stokes not defined
- Rim has a crispy yellow look (surely the hanging bits would erode over time?)
Also taking a brief look at the sellers other items just now, it's a new account and has some hideous items listed imo. Curious to get your opinions based on these plates.
Official Art / Design Portfolio
The strokes on the base are wrong. The decoration is stiff in appearance and the overall look is new!
Had a quick look at sellers other items. The first one being a Qianlong cinnabar plate on sale for £383 is actually plastic and new, worth £3. You can see the pit holes etc.
The jades if they are real (which I sincerely doubt) are ALL Modern.
A shameless seller!!!!!!!!! 🍋
Not sure about this one. If it’s a fake then it’s one of the better ones. They even managed to get the rim fritting right. The painting looks ok but the six character mark is so bad in one plate - wouldn’t they have smashed it even before firing? These were never meant to be a pair. Pairs weren’t made before late Qing if I remember correctly. It was too difficult to hold them together during firing and shipping and the idea of displaying in pairs was rather a Western one. So all pairs that are older were just two similar pieces put together and they rarely match perfectly.
There are pros and cons about these plates and of course the price is hilarious. Let’s hear more opinions.
I am not sure they are fakes, as such, either, but I am not convinced they are Kangxi. What does the mark say? I wonder if they might even be Japanese - but even then, would the grit be ok? Or perhaps they are 19th c.
I think they are quite nice; I especially like the little bird heads - but not at that price!
I don't think these are Japanese.
My understanding is that not only were artists highly skilled in decoration/themes but also expert calligraphers.
Once I saw the terrible strokes, I immediately dismissed them as modern. It's hard to imagine someone with very little or no skill in calligraphy being let loose to practice. Mr squiggle could have done a far better job than this calligrapher. 🤣
The sellers other items do not inspire confidence.
But the decoration is, although stiff in my opinion better than most I have seen.
It would as indicated by Birgit, be great to get others opinion on these so-called pair. As indicated many times these types of wares are not in my area of interest etc.
Another observation is that I feel like the decoration around the edges looks rather badly done. I wonder if the double circle on the left plate is a good indicator? I mean notice how it starts bold and fades out. I'm not sure exactly the process of how they painted those but to me it looks aritificial (not by hand).
Another piece of interest from the seller is this Snuff bottle. Granted it's 3" and so maybe the design isn't great blown up. I can't make out anything what I'm seeing in the scene and the colours are a hideous.
Official Art / Design Portfolio
The two paltes are surely Kangxi, as said by Vic, no doubt, although they have a strange decoration on the border.
Strange is also the yellowing of the glaze, unless they are damaged and restored., but no doubt they are Kangxi. Some private kiln probably.
The color of the snuff bottle is ok for enamels on metal, as is this bottle.
But it is true that the prices are laughable and that this seller has a lot of fake and bad things on sale.
Thank you Giovanni for the clarification of these plates.
Another well learnt lesson served up by the grandmaster. A treasure trove of knowledge and experience. 😊
I think the calligraphy marks on these are fine , and not a cause for concern, despite some of the comments above -
I mean they are obviously written very quickly and with more gusto than care, but they are readable and properly formed. My understanding is that in Jingdezhen the porcelain painter /decorator and the mark writer were two (or probably more) different people .
So the porcelain could have several decorators, if the pattern and enamels were complex, and then someone whose job was just to write the marks did the calligraphy. And for non-imperial pieces like these, the mark would be a commendation mark with no great significance, and requiring no great skill . You see this many times with domestic qing porcelain where the mark is a facsimile reign mark or unreadable .
I can read only two of these characters - 4th is the character for jade, 6th is the usual last character : 'made'. 5th is possibly the character for 'hall'/studio .
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