I certainly thought that the experts on Catawiki provided a guarantee of authenticity until some of you informed me otherwise on the other thread. 

The obvious problem with this for Catawiki is that this ‘expert’ Service is their USP. It is also a service buyers pay a premium for in the form of a 9% buyers premium and increased competition (and the accompanying higher prices) due to others also thinking it’s worth paying a bit more because it comes with a guarantee.

I haven’t bought anything from Catawiki and, recently, it seems that the vast majority of Chinese porcelain on the site is 20th century. There seems to be a few happily advertised as ‘late 20th century’ and ‘21st century’ too, which is rather odd?

Nic

My opinion only. But I like it so I'm sticking with it......

Catawiki and Ebay with """"notable""" rare exceptions possibly are not auctions at all. They are in fact "who will pay the highest retail price algorithms". As stated above ebay is easier to self appraise. The experts on catawiki don't even touch the piece. What sort of appraisal is that? Useless and worryingly dangerous.

Hi Nic and Supioduo:

I couldn't agree more. I have said it before and I'll say it again, Catawiki sucks big time even though some Forum members don't like to hear that! They don't answer questions even about basic policies, they don't allow potential buyers and sellers to communicate, they charge a 9% buyer's fee in return for zero service, their shipping prices are outrageous and their so-called experts lack expertise. It is true that a really knowledgable buyer might pick up an unrecognized item there for a relatively low price. However, most of us lack that degree of expertise.

At least with eBay they don't pose as something they are not. We all know that 98% of their Chinese items are fakes and we respond accordingly. I have made many purchases through eBay, but each purchase has involved me in a lot of work and research and questions sent to sellers. I have made one or two bad mistakes of judgment and learned from them. However, eBay has democratized the buying of Chinese antiques. Before them I could only make such purchases through New York City and San Francisco antique dealers who often added 100 - 300% premiums to their items and had a take it or leave it attitude. I still occasionally buy from dealers, but because of eBay they are willing to offer significant discounts. So with all its problems eBay has done some good but the old Roman precept of caveat emptor very much applies. Any impulse purchase there and any straying beyond the few sellers that Peter highlights on bidamount.com are receipes for disaster!

Regards,

Errol

I agree with the sentiments expressed here about catawiki, and I don't think anyone on the forum has ever defended them or denied their failings. Even Peter acknowledges their 'teething' problems. Catawiki seems like a big corporation which is now investing in the antique market without any real expertise or people skills. Sooner or late the sellers may abandon the site when they realise insufficient or frustrated buyers are holding down prices. 

I'm not clear about what it means to say ebay is not an auction site .

Most of us have had bargains and disasters there , and the majority of ebay items sell 'under retail' , which is why people use it so much. What's great about ebay is that things turn up from people's lofts, garages and cupboards that would never get sold without ebay. And it is still possible to pick up unrecognised rare items. 

I have a friend who deals in silver here in China, and apparently one of the best published collections of chinese export silver , the really good enamelled stuff, was acquired by a famous collector  in Beijing mainly from purchases on ebay about 10 years ago (before the market got wise and appreciated the value of export silver), so there are hidden gems to be found and new collections to be built. 

Nicely stated Tam!

If you know what you are doing, the world is your oyster.

Mark

Hello Tam:

I agree with you but I thought you stated "Catawiki and Ebay with """"notable""" rare exceptions possibly are not auctions at all."  I think that eBay does offer true auctions since the highest bidder gets the item even if sometimes that bid is absurdly high. Also, some Forum members have defended Catawiki. I can understand why Peter might want to promote them, but their problems are far more than "teething problems."  I have never gone beyond the very initital stages with them of the same process I follow with eBay when looking at Catawiki items. However, they fail miserably even at that early stage whereas eBay accomplishes it fairly easily. Catawiki had promised Peter they would make reforms and yet they have not done so. For example, I sent them a very basic message on the link to Catawiki that Peter set up on bidamount.com. That was about three weeks ago and I still have not had a response. What would happen if one won an item and it didn't arrive or arrived damaged? That would be one huge nightmare!

Without eBay I would not have many of the items I like so much in my home. I have overpaid for some, got some at fair market value and in rare cases have actually got good items at bargain prices. Also, when I call eBay they are very helpful and try their best. I'm not trying to promote eBay, but they are really all there is for those of us who like genuine Chinese antique items but cannot resort to Sotheby's and Christie's and their auctions.

I'm not sure that there are too many hidden gems left on eBay. Sometimes I find something I like and cross my fingers that no one else will notice it. When I look a day later there are 64 watchers and 34 bids and I know the final price is going to be too high and way above market value. I then often abandon further involvement.

Another element that probably none of us can deny with eBay is that there is a sort of addictive gambling thrill that comes with bidding on and winning an item on eBay especially if one did not have to pay above market value. Sometimes in the last 15 seconds of an auction I can feel my heart beating. I'm not sure though that that is a good thing at my age!

Kind regards,

Errol

I may be mistaken but I’d understood that Catawiki is a premium site, that (supposed to be) ‘a cut above’, the good stuff with the dross taken out? Is it not meant to have better items, better dealers, the benefit of experts and generally higher standards? I think I partly got this impression from the extra costs: 9% buyers premium, higher p&p. If it does not provide these premium elements there can be no justification for the costs? If it is as much of a minefield as any other auction then what is the point of it? Can it ever hope to compete?

All auctions, on line and otherwise, are a minefield. I have several auction houses nearby, some are very rough and ready and some are much more civilised affairs! I don’t expect the same in my local provincial auction as I would expect in, say, Bonham’s and I certainly would be miffed if I was paying a premium in a decidedly average auction house.

As Errol has said, I think part of the appeal of auction is the battle of wits, ‘the buzz’ of finding something, bidding on it, trying to put-smart the competition? It certainly gets the adrenaline going! It is definitely an addiction!

Nic

Yes I agree with you about the hunting fever on Ebay. That’s what I really like and sadly miss on Catawiki. I once bid there, but after each last minute bid the bidding time is prolonged by a minute to give everybody the chance to outbid you. I absolutely hate that and it’s the reason why I stopped looking at the Carawiki site. There are no bargains to be made by clever bidding. 

I didn’t know that about the last minute! That’s terrible! I’ve never got as far as being in the last few minutes of bidding. Having said that, there is an item ending this week which I’d planned to go as high as the estimate but now I’m having second thoughts.

Was viewing a jadeite jade kwan yin pendant set in white gold with diamond's.

Tried in vain to register/sign up.

Informed that bids from Australian are not being accepted. 

Raised issue with peter a number of months ago and was assured that the issue of Aussie battlers  bidding would be rectified.

Alas, sadly this has not happened.

With said anger and or frustration surrounding said so-called experts I can only synthesis.

The item that plucked my interest concludes tomorrow.

Mark

Dear all,

I started this thread by showing a suspicious piece listed on Catawiki. The aim of the thread was not to blame Catawiki, I have not spent a single word in that sense.

It was just in the sense of alerting against the possibility of buying a fake item, something that can happens everywhere, although it is true that on Catawiki, according to them, it should be safe.

Then the discussion moved upon Catawiki itself, which is an issue that has been already discussed here in other threads.

My personal opinion, about this, is that everywhere we must be cautious, even at auction houses. And especially on ebay, because it is known that ebay is not interested at all in contrasting the deals of fake items.

Although ebay is not ethically correct in his policy, frankly it should be blamed until a certain point, since it seems that there are people who like that. Before joining here, I would not have suspected that there are people who like to buy items which are clearly fake, not described as authentic, hence sold at the minimum price and super rare if genuine, and are nevertheless convinced to have bought a genuine piece.

As for Catawiki, I already said that I did try once and it will remain the only one.

What I do not like there is:

The difficulty in communication with their “experts”

The level of such “experts”

The fact that such “experts” do not consider that it may happen that somebody could have some knowledge, which is a clear symptom of stupidity.

The fact that their opinion has anyway the priority

The too small format of the pictures.

The too much succinct descriptions.

The fact that they decide when your sale will start / end

The fact that offers are accepted even after the end of the sale, which is against the rule of the auctions (when the hammer is down, there are no chance, it is a strict rule everywhere!).

Giovanni

Genuine question: Can someone explain why this is not considered a fake? What is it classed as? And is it worthy of being on a supposedly prestigious auction site?

https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/23140037-celadon-moon-bottle-porcelain-china-21st-century

Dear Nic, actually it is described as 21st century, then since yesterday until maximum 18 years ago, and it is not imitating moon flasks of any period.

This is the typical sale where the seller is hoping of finding buyers who imagine, with no reasons, that it is valuable. Something like "Chinese moon flask! I heard that they are highly valuable!"

Giovanni

This is a mystery to me! because it is not pretending to be antique it is OK?

Catawiki should put these items in a separate auction?

Nic

It is in fact in the category  „modern Chinese auction“ so everyone should know what to expect.