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Just to share my beautiful Xuande 1435-1435, 15 inch tall, mark and period Vase, Dragon and Phoenix with imported cobalt blue
Some will say the bottom looks fake but keep in mind during the last part of the Yuan and the beginning Ming had bottoms like this and many try to fake the look but here are a few to look at from Allen truong and others
richard severson
Sorry Richard,
this is a low grade fake, bad attempt to imitate the original ones. Better stop to buy.
Giovanni
Dear Richard,
It's very disappointing to get bad news about an item, I know full well myself, it's happened to me often enough too. However, yes, I think your piece is not Xuande mark and period, the tone of the cobalt blue alone is not right for that.
Best wishes,
Alan
Hi,
If you are not an expert like myself I recommend you post the item you wish to buy in the ''identify me'' section before you buy. It'll save you a lot of money.
Hi,
If it is of any help, the way dragons are painted can be a good clue to the authenticity of an item. If you search on Xuande dragon and select something from Christies , for example, to compare with, then you will see there is an obvious difference in the quality of the depiction.
Best wishes,
Julia
Dear Julia,
You are of course right. Dragon styles also make for excellent diagnostics.
Alan
It truly amazes me, so many opinions as experts, one says the color is not right, one says check Christie`s for examples, Ok so I did and here they are, you choose what you would rather have, My dragon vase is superb with muscle tone on the legs which you don`t see much, with the all the whiskers going the right way as if the dragon was flying, but the other vases some whiskers are up and some forward and some down all at the same time, imagine that, My vase the whiskers are all done freehand style blowing in the wind, others straight all the same as if a stencil, but this is the place for all to learn by - Thanks for all the comments, it`s how all learn by
richard severson
Hi Richard,
In my opinion the christies pieces look 10x better than your vase. The difference between a master and amateur painter. Don't look at small details but look at the overall work. The difference is blatant.
If genuine, your vase would be worth millions. Be careful when it is too good to be true or you might your time and money. Regards
Hi - Here is another sold at Sotherby`s auction, a long skinny dragon almost like mine listed by Alain Truong with same exact bottom design
richard severson
I lost about 1500 dollars in the past 6 months buying fakes. You learn from your mistakes and grow over it. I wish you good luck for the future Richard. Regards.
Dear Richard,
I did suggest you, both here and in the other thread with the impossible Song blue vase (no more answers/posts there) to stop buy and start to build up your education about Chinese ceramics, before to start buy again.
You should do that through books, Museums, visiting the preview of good auction houses, follow specific Forums and ask expert members to explain when you have not understood something.
After that, you will see at first glance, without the need of checking details, that this your vase is clearly a fake. The "hand" is not there.
And you will also understand that it has no sense to compare a Ming dragon to a Yuan dragon, as you did in your last post, because they are completely different.
Giovanni
Just for example dear Richard, why you did not ask why the supposed Song blue vase is not Song? You will not learn by taking an answer as it is, without asking or trying to understand why.
Giovanni
Clayandbrush - So tell me then why do Zuande vases have the same bottom motifs as the Yuan vases in many cases, same scroll, same flowers and same dragon yes, long and skinny, I could show you right here many vases with same designs. The first Ming emperor banned Yuan motifs and even the cobalt being Mongols and he wanted Chinese stuff not Mongolia stuff but still it did not last long, Xuande almost 60 years later you still see Yuan motifs everywhere, is this not true?
richard severson
Clayandbrush - Yes The song vase has more tendencies to be Song than Ming, the handles with the fish or other type of animal is Song Type, Song also did mostly monochromes, the glaze is running badly on this vase which suggests early before Ming, by Ming time you almost never see glaze runs, it is a gorgeous vase with a very smooth glaze except for the runs and it has a signature if we can ever figure out what it says,
Also I do not post my stuff for opinions but everyone is welcome to have an opinion, we learn that way
My collection is extensive, Porcelains, Rhino horns, over 50 bronzes and Jades is what I collect
richard severson
Dear Richard,
my name is Giovanni?.
Here below is a Xuande dragon and the Yuan dragon that you have shown. Are them similar? Each one of them has distinct features that are only seen on dragons of the related period.
Look at many Ming dragons and you will verify that they share common features that are not seen in Yuan dragons. Do that homework and you will see.
I have not mentioned other designs, (although they too are different), I have mentioned the dragons because dragons are very distinctive of the period of manufacture, as also said by Julia and Alan.
If you have found a Yuan and a Xuande dragons that are similar, please post.
Giovanni
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