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strange signature, does anyone know how to read it?

Hello Richard,

sorry to be explicit but if you have bought this as Song, as seems that you are claiming in the title of the thread, I suggest you to stop buying and study the matter before to start buying again. Regardless the price that you paid for it, it is money through out from the window.

It is a fake, it has not been in the ocean, and you will never find a Song dynasty cobalt blue vase.

Giovanni

Dear Richard,

It is better to discuss each item within his own thread to avoid confusion.

In another thread you did answer to my post above, saying that:

“Clayandbrush - Yes The song vase has more tendencies to be Song than Ming, the handles with the fish or other type of animal is Song Type, Song also did mostly monochromes, the glaze is running badly on this vase which suggests early before Ming, by Ming time you almost never see glaze runs, it is a gorgeous vase with a very smooth glaze except for the runs and it has a signature if we can ever figure out what it says,

Also I do not post my stuff for opinions but everyone is welcome to have an opinion, we learn that way

My collection is extensive, Porcelains, Rhino horns, over 50 bronzes and Jades is what I collect”

Let see each point.

“Yes The song vase has more tendencies to be Song than Ming”: sorry, it is not Song nor Ming, it is a modern vase. You will agree when you will know more or other people with experience will tell you.

“the handles with the fish or other type of animal is Song Type”: Richard, Song ware is the quintessence of elegance! You will not see those so big handles on a Song vase, and if yes, they will be more elegant.

“Song also did mostly monochromes”: it is absolutely true, but essentially white, brown, green, black, Jun, etc. but NOT underglaze cobalt blue! If your vase were Song, it would be the only one, thus worth millions.

“the glaze is running badly on this vase which suggests early before Ming”: that is not true, you can have either not controlled and perfectly controlled running of the glaze during Song. For example, on Jun ware the big difference between Song and any later period is just the glaze running.

“it is a gorgeous vase with a very smooth glaze”: yes, too much shiny and smooth glaze which denotes that it is not a shipwreck item.

Dear Richard, I did post in these two threads being confident that you are open to hear what said by others, since by the photo you looks a young nice guy? but if you say that you are not posting for opinions then it seems that you are absolutely sure of your thoughts.

If you do not want to consider what is being told you by others, then it is useless to go further.

If instead you are open to reconsider your convincement by verifying if what is told you is true or not, please check all the above points.

Up to now I have seen only two items of your collection; based on them, I am afraid that you could have a lot of bad things there, sorry to say.   

Giovanni

Giovanni, you are so patient. Nice comment, I agree with you.  ?  ?  ? 

Professional and precise reply  by both Giovanni and Xin.

BTW Giovanni how many Rhino horns do you have, if you don't mind me asking out of curiosity?

Mark

Dear Mark,

I do not know why you are asking that to me, but it is a really curious coincidence, or you have the supernatural power of reading what I am thinking?.

In fact, a couple of hours ago I was thinking about Richard’s collection, which I was expecting being worrying due to the premises of this vase and the b&w dragon one.

Dear Richard, I am addressing to you too, if you want to listen. I did a search here on the site for your previous posts and have seen a supposed Yongzheng dish that is modern, a group of supposed Jun vases which are all clearly fakes and even not of good quality, and a lot of supposed Rhino pieces. If I remember well, everybody told you in that thread that they are not real ones and you said that you have no doubts that they are real ones. You did ask the others how many Rhino pieces they have handled.

Dear Richard, it is not handling fakes that one can learn something. One can handle myriad of fakes, he will learn nothing. Do you know how many real Rhino objects I have handled? None. Then I plainly admit that I am not competent at all about Rhino objects. Regardless, it is evident that none of your supposed Rhino objects seen in that thread is real, as also said by Peter and others I think. The pictures are enough, without handling them.

So to answer your question dear Mark, I do not have and never had a single piece of Rhino horn.

Giovanni

Hi Giovanni,

Sorry I misread your reply to Richard.

Mark

Hi to All - I love to laugh and you are making me laugh now, I have over 25 rhino horns and the largest ones in the world, like I said before you must see the hair like follicles in the grain especially the old ones, all mine have the hair popping out,  It`s interesting that the ones that comment the most have the least experience, did you read what he said, he has never handled a real rhino horn and yet he is telling me that mine are fake LOL...  One is 20in. tall and other are 15 in. tall, some are over 7 pds -  here are a few pictures for fun

P.S. Peter did say they did not have much or any patina, however, you have never seen more patina on rhino horns than these, these are very very old evan cracks are forming, want to see a close up? just ask - rich

keep it light and keep smiling but learn something - rich

Hi Richard,

it is good that you laugh, you will live longer?.

You are simply ignoring a basic rule: you know nothing from fakes, you will remain in the same place.

I share each word said by Springmeier. Send that picture to Christies, you will see.

Remember that I am not expert on Rhino, and usually I keep my mouth close when it comes to something that I don’t know, like jade, bronzes, paintings. Nevertheless here the matter is so clear.

It is not necessary to be a Caravaggio’s expert to see the original and a common painting of the same period, but made by a folk painter.  

Some further comments about the picture of the supposed Rhino statues.

The b&w big vase behind them, on the left: it is a fake.

The three b&w vases in the upper vitrine: fake.

The big supposed Tang statue behind the vitrine: fake.

The supposed Ru vases: forget it.

If you do not believe, please post them.

Giovanni

Hi - Giovanni,  You got one thing right, the big vase on the right is a fake. I got free, it was a lamp, Now the top vase No they are not fakes, there Chenghua`s and Yes I know you won`t believe that but it doesn't matter, No one could know if real or fake by that blurry picture but you seem to and that`s ok

Tang statue yes real, and not real because I said so and not fake because you said so

Collecting antiques is no different than anyone with a good idea like Walt Disney who they said was a dreamer and would know loan him money or Kentucky fried chicken owner who went to 1300 places before one said yes to him, 99% of the people have been brainwashed to believe the negative, all is fake... well except for Christie`s or Sotherby`s , and people believe that, Not me

However we will all make mistakes and learn by them and hopefully really learn, but not because someone says it fake, we have to know ourself and that takes time and experience

I am going against the grain and will get ridiculed by that but just watch my collection as I reveal it little by little

The only vase I have ever bought at a antique swapmeet was that Xuande vase and I love it and would have surely paid much more for it fake or not, we need a few fakes to compare to in time and not to be afraid of that but most of my collection came from shipwrecks and Tombs and one old 92 year old collector who lived through the rape of Nanking and collected since he was a kid, him being right in the middle of the heartland Chinese antiques of bronze, porcelain etc... The Shang dynasty was there, Jingdazhen is nearby etc... 

I went to China 7 times and have more experience than you think but God bless the nay sayers - rich

Dear Richard,

yes I can say by that blurred picture that those items are fake, and I invited you to post them. If you will post them instead of saying that they are real we will see what is going here, if I am presumptuous or you are too much optimist.

The reality dear Richard is not me who is presumptuous. If all the pieces seen in that picture were real ones, they would be worth a total of many millions. And this, I suppose, is only a part of your collection.

Do you really think that everybody else is blind and only you have the knowledge allowing you to make such incredible steals?

It is incredible that one believes all what you said about China’s ancient artifacts market.

There is also a very important point. Up to now, for all the clear fake items that you have posted, I never told you that “in my opinion it is a fake”. Instead, I always told you WHY it is a fake. But you never answered accordingly. You never said something competent for supporting your thinking.

Anyway, let's make it short: send the pictures to Christie’s of whatever of the pieces that you have shown recently, including that supposed Jun Shang style vase, which will not fool anyone with a bit of knowledge, and then please report here the outcome. And do not tell us that you are not selling your collection, it is not necessary to sell, just ask their opinion.

Giovanni