Very nice alter cabinet!

Not 100% sure but the material looks very much like YuMu wood rather than Huanghuali.

Mark 

It's some type of rosewood, but not sure it's HH. The pierced carving of the prunus flowers is really fine...soft woods like jumu and yumu can't get the sharp edges with that king of depth.

A bit too much polish and shine, but I'm interested. I'll shoot you a WeChat message to get more pics.

Hi greeno107, 

The grain looks very like YuMu wood to my eyes. It may also be Jumu. It's a very nice piece he has. Would look fantastic in the right environment. 

This is a Huanghuali wood display table I bought a couple of years back superb provenance. Huanghuali top with carved dragons, bat's etc. I believe it's only the top that's HH. The base is other. Estate sale and listed simply as hardwood. 

It's a stunning beautiful piece of 19/20 century. Profusely carved etc.

Mark

This is a chair that was being sold as Huanghuali wood. It's not. It's YuMu wood. It did not sell either. The buyers obviously realized it's not Huanghuali otherwise it would have surpassed the estimate easily. 

I have a friend who is very good with woods etc. I shall ask him for his opinion. I shall post their response etc. 

Definitely not Huanghuali wood, this is very similar to my Chinese Calligraphy cabinet, which is made from Jumu or southern elm wood. My friend is an expert I sent her pictures of your cabinet. I will post her response.

Thank you Ron1966. Looking forward to your friends opinions etc. 

Mark 

@imperialfinegems

I think you posted that cabinet before. It is very nicely carved, and has many Chinese motifs, but it does not have a form that I have ever seen used in Classical Chinese furniture which has very strict design constraints. For example, the crescent moon and star on the middle rounded next to an elk...that's not a Chinese motif.

Some examples of huanghuali made for furniture for the European market do exist, but they have traditional European forms much like Chippendale furniture made during the same period and I've not seen an example that was carved.

Your piece is so unique in style, I unfortunately do not share your feelings about it being HH, and perhaps not Chinese.  I have a semi-open mind 😉 😊 , so if you can show me similar designs in major collections, I'd would be happy to reconsider my position.

I agree - The horseshoe chair you show is clearly Yuma....I can tell without even opening the link as the wide grain is obvious.

CollectingAsia's alter cabinet is a classical Chinese design, the drawers suggest that the piece is 19th c or newer, the carving of the elongated side spandrels that have been heavily pierced can not be achieved with soft wood such as jumu and yumu. The porous nature of softwood does not take to a high polish that hardwood can achieve.

Years ago, I was offered a pair of Ming tapered cabinets that was sold at Sotheby's back in the 1970's, reportedly huanghuali. The paperwork from the sale showed a sale price of $6800, a substantial amount back then.  Unfortunately, the cabinet was jumu, not huanghuali.

My point is, that yes, some old jumu has similar color and a denser grain that in photos can look like HH, but once you see it in person, the difference is significant.

In the case of this alter cabinet, it's clearly not old enough to have been made from the old dense jumu of the Ming dynasty, and the fine carving excludes all softwood.

Maybe I need to change my Avatar to the grinch....Sorry. I hope you know this talk is all academic...nothing personal. 

Can we see the top?

Posted by: @greeno107

@imperialfinegems

I think you posted that cabinet before. It is very nicely carved, and has many Chinese motifs, but it does not have a form that I have ever seen used in Classical Chinese furniture which has very strict design constraints. For example, the crescent moon and star on the middle rounded next to an elk...that's not a Chinese motif.

Some examples of huanghuali made for furniture for the European market do exist, but they have traditional European forms much like Chippendale furniture made during the same period and I've not seen an example that was carved.

Your piece is so unique in style, I unfortunately do not share your feelings about it being HH, and perhaps not Chinese.  I have a semi-open mind 😉 😊 , so if you can show me similar designs in major collections, I'd would be happy to reconsider my position.

I agree - The horseshoe chair you show is clearly Yuma....I can tell without even opening the link as the wide grain is obvious.

CollectingAsia's alter cabinet is a classical Chinese design, the drawers suggest that the piece is 19th c or newer, the carving of the elongated side spandrels that have been heavily pierced can not be achieved with soft wood such as jumu and yumu. The porous nature of softwood does not take to a high polish that hardwood can achieve.

Years ago, I was offered a pair of Ming tapered cabinets that was sold at Sotheby's back in the 1970's, reportedly huanghuali. The paperwork from the sale showed a sale price of $6800, a substantial amount back then.  Unfortunately, the cabinet was jumu, not huanghuali.

My point is, that yes, some old jumu has similar color and a denser grain that in photos can look like HH, but once you see it in person, the difference is significant.

In the case of this alter cabinet, it's clearly not old enough to have been made from the old dense jumu of the Ming dynasty, and the fine carving excludes all softwood.

 

I agree with you, it’s definitely not HH, I’m thinking JuMu, but possibly Rosewood. The piece is beautiful, but definitely not old. I’m guessing 30-50 years old.

Now I’m thinking it’s Red Ebony wood, also a rare hardwood. I have another cabinet that’s made from red ebony.

@greeno107  Please wechat me at michaelbarber for additional images.   The cabinet does have an early receipt from the 1960s and is from a prominent collection.  

@Greeno107,

Thank you for comments etc. 

I am not sure about your level of expertise when it comes to chinese furniture or the different types therein. 

This display table posted is clearly straits chinese furniture. It not traditional classical furniture. It dates from the late 19th century. The suggestion that is probably not Chinese is absurd. There are no nails or glue etc that were/are used in western furniture. 

The design clearly displays various dragons, 'shou' medallion of good fortune and the 'xi' character for joy, together with imagery of deer and bat's for good wishes. The table is profusely carved in the manner and style of strait chinese furniture. And not a western made example. 

As to the suggestion that it's not Huanghuali wood top is also in my submission with respect not correct. 

People who do know their woods and are very competent dealers have examined it. They include:

1. Eric Meier (the wood database) who has written a book or two on different species of wood. He examined a number of pictures and concluded it was Huanghuali (top) 

2. Xin from wyssemaria art also stated he thought it was Huanghuali wood (top). 

3. Sotheby's examined a number of pictures I forwarded to them a year or so back. They stated that they believed it was it was Huanghuali wood (top only) and that it was straits chinese furniture dating to the late 19th century. They were keen on examining it in person. 

Sotheby's were happy to accept it in a upcoming auction. You know how difficult it is to get anything accepted by them. Its a uphill battle. The person I was speaking to was aware of the particular table that was sold.  Her name is Ann Roberts who has nearly 40 years experience with Chinese antique including furniture. 

It was owned by a prominent Australian politician that later became a successful and wealthy business man. It was bought/imported in about 1905 by the Bonythyn family. I do have somewhere the paperwork. It was later sold by family descendants to the O'Connor gallery in about 1991.

It was then purchased by a prominent Australian who collected asian art. His name was John Fairfax AC. His collection was phenomenal and was sold by leonard joels of Melbourne over a two day period in 2017. I was very fortunate to pick it up for little money as it was just listed as hard wood. It was towards the end of the sale. 

The family of the Fairfax estate first contacted sotheby's to auction the estate. However negotiations broke down and they went with a smaller auction house. 

I do not propose to prove or show examples of various straits chinese furniture. The experts are comfortable with it. So if you think it's not perhaps you could provide proof. I know what it is and so do experts in the trade. Clearly you do not and should gain some experience or expertise in the subject before posting erroneous statements. 

A good book for you to look at is by Ho Wing Ming titled 'straits chinese furniture'. I don't have a copy of it. I have viewed it at our state library a year ago. Have you seen/read this book? 

The alter table that was the original part of this blog is clearly not Huanghuali wood. You think it is or highly probable. It's not. You believe my table top is not Huanghuali when clearly experts in the trade believe it is. Either they are all wrong or perhaps you are. I know which side I would lean towards with all due respect. 

Below are examples of the auction catalogue and a brief history of straits chinese furniture along with a image of the said book. 

Mark 

Well, I try to stay far from titles like 'expert', but I also know a few museum curators, book authors, and specialist at all three major auction houses in N.Y, plus others in the trade, and I've owned (and own) several huanghuali furniture pieces.

Even the most hardened scholar can be wrong. I could be, and have been plenty wrong with my opinions when based on photos. So, we simply disagree on this piece. But, consider these points.

Your cabinet has Chinese emblems, and I recognized that in my first post. However, it also has several non-Chinese designs.

The top has a dragon eating another dragon. This mythical creature is called an ouroboros. It's origin  is from Egypt, but it has spread throught Europe and Southern Asia. It's clearly not European, so quick Google turned up a bronze ouroboros from Burma (Myanmar).  I do not see that the Chinese ever used it in their designs.

The crescent and star motif is middle eastern, specifically the Ottoman Empire. The empire extended into Burma, but not China. That is why there is a Muslim population in Myranmar.

The deer with the unusual antlers was a lucky find while I was searching Google. It's an Eld's deer from Burma. It's endangered and considered sacred.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Now, I don't have a lot of experience with Chinese Strait's furniture, I prefer hardwood Classical Chinese pieces, so I ask...does Straits furniture also originate from Myanmar (Burma)?

I also did a quick search to see if HH originates from Burma. While there are many types of teak, it does not appear to be found in that area of the world.

For these reasons I think it is possible a Burmese piece of furniture that could have been made for the Chinese market. I do not think it is likely to have been made the other way around.

Here is a photo of a piece I think you will agree looks very similar to yours that Pinterest said was being offered on EBay in the U.K. described as Chinese -Burmese. 

A thousand pardons for creating ripples in the pool of tranquility!

Hi greeno107, 

Thank you for your reply and comments therein. 

As far as I know straits chinese furniture was mainly made in Singapore (during the 19/20th century) and not in Burma. It could also be in Malaysia and Indonesia. But unlikely in that time period. But I am not 100% sure. I don't have that book with me. Sorry I don't know the full history. 

The Burmese cabinet has some similarities except for the dragons. Mine don't have wings. The scales are different as is the head. The piece you are comparing with is modern not old. The quality is lacking. It's got no natural glow. It's jumbled. 

As to whether my display table is Huanghuali or not. We agree to differ on that point. I can only be advised by experts in the trade. They say it is. You believe otherwise. It's 100% early 19th century with papers etc. So no argument there. I hope so anyway. 

I accept that you know nothing about chinese straits furniture. I don't know a lot myself. But as the name itself suggests its called Chinese straits furniture for a particular reason. Regardless of its origin whether Singapore or Indonesia. Yes as far as I know Huanghuali wood was available at that time. Especially in Singapore. Forget about Burma! 

Remember it's 1900. Not the year 1990. 

Now to the alter table in question. I did receive a reply from my friend who confirmed two things. 

1. It's hainan huanghuali wood. 

2. Unable to determine its age by the said pictures. Would need further images. 

So my apologies are forthcoming. I was totally wrong. I thought it was jumu wood.  Now I know. Especially with hainan species. 

Mark