Dear Erroll,

I am with you about dirty but that is a questionable matter.

I am of the opinion that dirty is just dirty and signs of age are a different thing. So I clean my items, but I know that it is somehow dangerous because there are people who think that “cleaned” is equal to “new”.

Then I follow two different procedures.

Items that I want to keep in my collection: I clean them thoroughly, both inside and outside.

Items that I buy for reselling: I clean them only outside, so the buyer can see the “as found” conditions.

In some cases and/or buyers, that is important.  I have a vase on sale now where I felt necessary to include pictures comparing the "as found" to the cleaned condition because the difference is dramatic.

I agree with you about the negative feedbacks. It is true that there are ebayers who can abuse of it, but not having the possibility to release negative feedbacks, in both directions, is useless.

Giovanni

I recently left negative feedback for a seller who mysteriously couldn’t find the item I’d won. Whilst this was annoying, I was more angry about the clipped communication and how matter of fact she was about it, like it just couldn’t be helped, it was a ‘tough luck’ attitude. Had she apologised just once I probably wouldn’t have bothered, but her attitude was appalling.

I had no trouble from eBay in leaving negative feedback but I did think hard about doing so. My main fear is that the seller will give me negative feedback out of retaliation. So I only leave feedback AFTER the seller has left feedback for me.

If we do leave negative feedback, it should be clear and to the point. I’ve read some negative comments on ebayer profiles that say nothing of what went wrong. Things like ‘terrible seller’ are of no help really, one needs to know why they’re terrible. That’s the best way to help other buyers. It also helps build a feedback history - if several buyers are making the same complaint it’s obviously not a one-off.

Nic

I think that when sellers do not seek to rectify a problem with the transaction a negative feedback is warranted. For example I once bought a pair of figures from a seller, one of them arrived smashed to pieces and he wouldn't give me a refund as he said the problem was with the postage company ? . Another time I bought a vase from somebody that they described as good condition, it arrived and it literally had an impact hole on the side with cracks coming out of it, they refused to accept a return for a refund. By the nature of how eBay is set up you do get some pretty unproffesional people selling that try to avoid giving a refund or taking responsibility, people that have no place in business probably. I still didn't give these people a negative feedback but I could see a negative feedback being warranted.

In cases where a seller is attentive and willing to resolve any issues (offering a refund for example), I do not think a negative feedback should be left. A negative feedback is a serious thing that could in part lead to somebody's business being destroyed permanently, so I really would reserve it for sellers that deserve it.

I would not leave a negative feedback for a dirty item. If an item is fake and the seller genuinely didn't know, if the seller is willing to accept a return for the item for a refund I do not think a negative feedback should be left. If the seller is purposely trying to deceive people with fake items, explicity stating they are authentic when they know that they are not then a negative feedback may be warranted. Of course it is hard to tell the intent of sellers but there might be ways of telling in some specific cases.

Any seller may be familiar with the example where a buyer extorts the seller for a partial refund by threatening bad feedback.

Hello all:

I find myself agreeing with all of you. I'm very hesitant to leave negative feedbacks. However, as you all point out when there is an obvious problem and a seller fails to acknowledge it and fails to offer to correct the situation that certainly merits a negative feedback.

Giovanni I agree with you too about the defintion of "dirty." I don't expect an antique item to arrive in an immaculate condition. However, most antique dealers do try to put their best foot forward and bring old items acquired from estates, for example, into a condition where they look as if they have been cared for. I really did not appreciate receiving a grime-encrusted item where it took me at least two hours to clean up the grime. To me that suggests a seller who just doesn't care at all about his/her customers.

Nic the problem of items bid for and then won not being "available" is probably quite common. These are often sellers who presumably have found another buyer who wants the piece and is willing to pay more than your succesful bid. This is contrary to eBay's own rules and I think definitely merits a negative feedback.

Really each case has to be treated on its merits. When I see negative comments on Amazon.com about a product they don't necesarily stop me from buying an item. They do help me, however, inasmuch as I know the potential limitations with the item I'm likely to encounter. One has no way of making such a determination about sellers on eBay because every seller has a positive rating of 98 - 100% in eBay's perfect world. I agree too with Nic that the negative comment should clearly state the reason for the comment, for example, "item not of period stated" or "damage present that was not disclosed." I think the purpose of negative feedbacks should not be retaliation but should be to warn other buyers of potential problems with a seller and also to encourage bad sellers to correct their behavior.

As to buyers who use the threat of negative feedbacks as a way of blackmailing sellers to give them a discount on the final bidding price that is just despicable and should result in a negative feedback of the buyer.

Regards,

Errol

I think that negative feedbacks on Amazon might be taken less seriously by the Amazon company when they consider banning a seller. The thing with eBay is that they seem much more likely to permanently ban a seller from selling if they receive negative feedbacks, this leads to eBay having a higher threshold for negative feedbacks. I think eBay have tried to remedy this by providing a 'detailed seller rating' where the seller is given a star rating on several aspects such as accuracy of item description.

It is important to keep in mind also that all buyers have 100% feedback as you are not able to leave a negative feedback to a buyer if you are a seller. So as you say, both buyer and seller tend to have 100% feedback which makes it hard to determine which ones have rough edges. It is definitely an imperfect system, but I think that you can be assured that if there is a particularly bad seller they will be banned eventually, though most rogue buyers are able to carry on as the negative consequences of poor behaviour are very limited unless several sellers go through the trouble of contacting eBay to warn them of a bad buyer. I know that many sellers just stomach the costs of partial refund exortion for example to save their feedback with the buyers receiving no negative reprecussions.

I think if you feel you’ve been treated with disdain, negative feedback is warranted. Everyone makes mistakes and if it’s a genuine mistake the seller will try his/her best to remedy it. If they fall on their sword and assume responsibility for something that’s clearly their fault, one cannot ask for more than that? Even though it may have caused you a load of hassle. The ultimate ‘punishment’ I guess is to not buy from them again?

If you feel you’ve been treated unfairly, you’ll be doing everyone a favour in leaving negative feedback. I guess it’s a case of picking your battles.

As someone noted earlier, buyers are guilty of a great many things that put sellers at a disadvantage, and I think we should be sympathetic of the seller trying his/her best to do the right thing. But the fact that other buyers can be a bit of a nightmare shouldn’t affect our decision to leave negative feedback.

I don’t buy much off Amazon, I find you have to jump through hoops to get the free postage promised on the listing AND they’re forever trying to dupe you into signing up for Amazon Prime. I don’t like their practices so I avoid if possible.

Nic

Hi all:

One way I use to try to minimize buyer/seller problems is that I often communicate with the seller prior to an auction of an item I'm interested in. I always have questions and although I'm always polite, I leave sellers in no doubt that I'm very fussy about things and am interested in all the minutiae. Over the years, I have come to know various eBay sellers quite well and  have friendly communications with them. Some sellers go so far as to change their methods when dealing with my purchases. I find the United States Postal Service a nightmare to deal with and because I'm a good customer the sellers will therefore often send the item by FedEx or UPS at no additional charge.

I do run into problems, however, when cultural and language differences are profound even with respect to dealers in the USA and it is impossible to have any form of meaningful communication with the sellers. Those are the cases where difficulties are most likely to arise.

Amazon and eBay are both in the business of making money. However, Amazon is more customer friendly than eBay and more responsive to buyer concerns and complaints. I find that if I call eBay about a problem they just utter soothing words and tell me they will look into tthe matter and I then never hear from them again.

Errol

Hi all:

When I think further about this, I would not be too concerned if a whole bunch of negligent and crooked sellers were banned from eBay. eBay obviously does not police itself. So if buyers are too afraid to give negative feedbacks on sellers how can eBay ever be cleaned up as it needs to be?

In the case of the seller who I had given a negative feedback because of the filthy condition the vase arrived in, I had already complained to eBay by telephone that he might be guilty of shill bidding. We discussed him in another thread here started by Xin and we all noted his choice to keep all bidders' identities private. We concluded that the only reason for this was to hide shill bidding.  We all also agreed that this seller was probably mixing modern contemporary items with genuine antiques and thereby defrauding buyers. So I would not shed a tear if he were banned from eBay. I would say though that the likelihood of such a ban is close to zero. Both he and eBay profit handsomely when a contemporary item is sold at a high price as an 18th century piece. So why should eBay consider banning him no matter how many negative feedbacks he receives?

So the sole benefit of negative feedbacks is to try to warn other potential buyers of the risks of buying from a particular seller and I think as on Amazon.com, we all owe that to other buyers. Also, sellers who treat buyers badly are generally guilty of multiple eBay offenses.

I'm not making a case for giving negative feedbacks for minor errors and for ignorance. However, when on a Forum such as this we can all agree that a particular seller is consistently guilty of shady and improper practices a negative feed back is about the only weapon we have apart from denying him or her our business.

Errol

Dear Erroll,

the problem is that in order to be able to give him a negative feedback you must buy something from him, and who would buy something from such a seller?

There are many not honest sellers, but the really worst is ebay that not take into account honest reports showing that a seller or a buyer is not honest. That is the real problem, the not ethical behavior of ebay.

Giovanni

Dear Giovanni:

As I mentioned, I did buy a vase from this seller. I also suspected that shill bidding had been involved in the sale. Independently Xin posted an example of this seller listing a contemporary item as Kangxi I recall. I therefore used my opportunity to give the seller a negative rating on eBay.

I'm not trying to encourage everyone to use negative eBay ratings in an unthoughtful way. Sellers who make honest mistakes and who respond decently by apologising and giving refunds should not be treated in that way. However, when sellers behave really badly and then refuse to acknowledge that they are at fault or decline to grant a refund they do deserve a negative eBay negative rating and should be given one. The purpose of this is to alert other buyers to the potential risks involved in dealing with such sellers.

I agree with you that eBay is at fault. They look only at the bottom line financially. If that involves allowing fraudulent buyers and sellers to continue to use eBay they will never make any attempts to stop that. In fact, they might do even better from fraudulent transactions than they do from genuine ones. Customer satisfaction and fair treatment of sellers are low priorities for eBay. They know we have nowhere else to go. Indeed, apart from all the scams and other problems, they do run a very efficient operation and are miles ahead of Catawiki, for example. eBay is ideal for antique Chinese art purchases that are not in the price range of those one encounters at Sotheby's Christie's and Bonham's and eBay enables much better buys at more reasonable prices than one can obtain at antique stores in major cities if one does not fall victim to a scam.

Regards,

Errol