The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
But I think this plate is the most interesting piece in the sale. Peter talks about in the video and compare the enamels with the neckless vase at Doyle. It could possibly be worth millions if it's imperial falangcai Yongzheng mark and period.
@julia I agree, why not leave it more open-ended, either without a date attribution, or with "probably" or "possibly" included in the description. Like Peter said in his video, it would be nice for Sothebys to clarify what happened here, but who knows if that is something they will ever do.
I don't know the consignor. I guess that this is someone who acquired this collection from an older generation Hong Kong collector or his family. Because this collection contains a lot of high quality Yongzheng pieces which are very beloved by Hong Kong collectors. Many of them of this generation came actually from Shanghai in the 1950s. They collected a lot of things without provenances. And also that was very common for Hong Kong art dealers (until 90s) to remove all the labels from each porcelain and clean it. I heared stories from William Chak himself. He did that too. All Sotheby's and Christie's labels were removed because clients should not know how much they bought them for.
www.Wyssemaria-Art.com
[email protected]
Instagram: @wyssemaria_art
But I think this plate is the most interesting piece in the sale. Peter talks about in the video and compare the enamels with the neckless vase at Doyle. It could possibly be worth millions if it's imperial falangcai Yongzheng mark and period.
There are similar pieces in a museum of Hamburg, Germany. Yongzheng period.
www.Wyssemaria-Art.com
[email protected]
Instagram: @wyssemaria_art
This bowl is described as Yongzheng mark and period but sold for 176,000 against a 4000 - 6000 estimate.
I don't think it's later-enameled. I compared this one with other similar pieces in museum collections. It's of the period.
In fact, many undecorated bowls from the early Qing period were found in Jingdezheng in the early 20th century. They were part of the old imperial kiln inventory. But the quality of the enamels is totally different. It's not hard to see the difference, if you're familiar with this type.
www.Wyssemaria-Art.com
[email protected]
Instagram: @wyssemaria_art
Thank you, xin. What is the name of that museum?
Museum für Kunst und Gewerbe Hamburg
https://www.mkg-hamburg.de/en/home.html
I found photos from my archive.
www.Wyssemaria-Art.com
[email protected]
Instagram: @wyssemaria_art
Come on, Xin! Wo bist du? I'm impatiently waiting for the your reply. I would really like to know if the the plates at the museum are ruby-backed and if they are marked? I can't seem to find the at their site unfortunately.
Meanwhile it seems like I may have found the comp. Christie's 2017, The Imperial Sale, May 31, Lot 3029:
http://www.alaintruong.com/archives/2017/05/23/35314814.html
@xin_fawis Thank you for that information. Before I make a remark, I want to make clear (agian) that my training in the field of Chinese porcelains has been mostly through personal study, and I recognize how many more scholarly collectors there are who know far more than me. You are certainly one of those people.
That said, based purely on the appearance of the items that have so far been shown in this post, I completely understand what Sotheby's has done with their low assessments.
Quite honestly, they look modern to me.
In fact, this year more than ever, I've noticed these 'rare' discoveries showing up at aucton... William even posted one recently with the Heritage auction. You posted one about the Doyle's European piece. They seem to come with good provenance, but honestly, provenance in other fields of art has proven a very very bad way of authenticating art, and many museums have looked quite foolish relying on provenance.
With respect to Chinese porcelains, I recognize that there are lots of great masterpieces to be found still (I've found more than my share), but when you look closely enough for a long enough time, the 'mastery' of the art doesn't seem to measure up to other known examples. Yet, they still achieve incredible sales success at auction. Why is that?
Is the Chinese porcelain market so much strong than years before? Are the pieces so much better than years before? Is there a sense that these pieces are 'running out', so the demand is higher? Is the economy so strong that money is more available?
I think the answer to these questions is, no to all.
So, what's going on?
It could be that the knowledge of top collectors is weaker, or perhaps just more tollerable of variation/imperfection, than years past, so subtle changes in style, fineness of rendering, and color appear to not deter buyers from paying top dollar, and objects of lesser quality and newer age are passing through the auction process as genuine.
But, it could also be that there is intential misleading going on.
I wonder, which is the larger market, the sale of genuine mark and period pieces, or the sale of fakes? I think the latter.
So, hypothetically the successful sale of high quality reproductions (and by that, I am not suggesting brand new objects, but possibley modified 18th/19th c porcelain that have been re-decorated/modified) could provide a foundation for elevating the prices on lesser quality fakes that currently flood the market.
For example...
The European themed falangcai vase sold by Bonham's....$2 million dollars.
You, me, and others all acknowledge that the quality of the rendering of the vase did not measure up to the V&A Museum example sited by the auction house. I do not accept the rending as genuine...it defies logic that such quality would leave the Imperial kiln.
Further more, even if the rendering of the vase was a perfect match to the V&A example, the missing neck and cracks should have been plenty of justification for a much lower result regardless of rarity. I can attest for this since having just sold a huge imperial Yongzheng charger that would normally bring $2-4 million USD in perfect condition in today's market, but it only realized $350,000 plus premium at Christie's. How is that?
It is not sour grapes on my part, but rather my personal experience that tells me that there was something else is driving the price of the cut down European theme vase, and probably these same forces are at work with these other examples you've cited.
This kind of manipulation has been prevelent in mainland China (as I'm sure you know), but perhaps it has finally entered into the USA unbenounced.
Honestly, I think the lesson to be learned by these recent high results is that we need to be very cautious about using the high sales prices (the ends) to justify the purchases we make going forth (the means). The best and only method that we should use needs to be based on the factual and rational assessment of the quality of the work as compared to well established, known examples (preferrably in museums).
It is all very interesting.
Many thanks for the additional pics. Much appreciated. Both ruby-backed and with six-character marks within double-circles. And then with the Qianlong mark and period example at Christie's I think we've found the comparable examples Peter talks about in his video and that there should be little doubt about the plate at Sotheby's is mark and period.
Latest Post: Picking this up tomorrow Our newest member: mbokstrust mbokstrust Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.