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As a collector of Celadon wares I am interested in a particular feature that is sometimes found on dishes from the Song / Yuan dynasty which have 2 applique fish in the centre of the dish. Some of these dishes also have 2 pairs of holes in the rim, which were made to house copper handles (example in the British Museum). On examination, the holes appear to have been made prior to the application of the glaze. Were these dishes with holes in the rim made for a particular market? I would also like to know if, for example, I were to find a dish with these characteristics (2 pairs of holes in the rim) whether this would lend credence to the possibility of the dish being authentic, or are dishes like this still being made with holes in the rim? I have attached one example of a bowl with pair of holes, as well as one bowl without and which I assume is a modern copy.
Dear John,
these holes are strange, I never saw them before. Quite a strange idea to fix copper handles to one of these small fish bowls. But maybe your first bowl is somewhat larger, you didn't give a size. The glaze can be surprisingly good on Song bowls, but I miss glaze impurities and irregularities, especially on the second bowl. The first one might be really old, and the holes look like they were there from the beginning.
Here are two Song bowls I own. The lower one has an irregular looking foot with black spots in the glaze. The upper one looks more perfect from the underside but has fabrication faults like missing glaze spots and cracks on the inside. I'm far from being an expert for these pieces, hopefully someone can tell you more.
Best regards
Birgit
.
Birgit
Hi John,
I know little about these wares but the second bowl does indeed look like a modern copy. I had a pair of modern celadon vases with a similar foot rim and glaze.
I greatly admire celadons but I have never seen one with these holes before. Most items with holes for hanging seem to have them in the foot rim. Do you think that the way these are positioned, suggests the item is intended to hang rather like a basket and actually hold something rather than for storing the bowl or displaying on a wall decorative reasons?
Julia
I agree with tam that both bowls look new to me. For me it is especially the look of the footrings, but I also think the pictures are not good enough to be really sure. ?
Chris
Thankyou for showing your 2 bowls Birgit. They do look good. I found out about the copper handles from the British museum collection, although like you (and Julia) I'm not sure why it was necessary to make these holes and attach handles. There are quite a few like this and I don't know whether there was a special market for them or not.
If the first bowl (with holes in the rim) is not good - and I would tend to agree (no sign of age etc), then I must draw the conclusion that it is a copy. This means that for some reason this bowl is being reproduced with the 2 pairs of holes in the rim. That's what I find so odd. Why would copies be made with these holes in the rim?
Hi Chris,
I've decided to go with this bowl (excavated in Belitung). I think the characteristics are right and I do like the crackle glaze. I would appreciate your opinion. Size: 12cm
Hi John,
Yes, I agree about why make a copy with the holes. It is interesting to see how they are used as that is not at all what I envisaged. Very helpful, thanks.
Julia
Hi John,
the bowl from Belitung looks more convincing than the others.
Birgit
Yes, far more convincing ? . Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Hi John,
Even though I'm no expert for celadon I would say the Belitung bowl seems much better, just like Shinigami already said.
Chris
Thank you Chris. Good input. I am much more positive about the Belitung one - some positive comments also from Mr. Koh Nai King on messenger, so I'm feeling confident about this one.
sorry , I am new, can not post , that I use this forum, thank you,
can any Ones tell me about this painting, is it from Xu beihong artist? thank you all.
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