Having Catawiki items listed separately, as Peter has done is helpful. They do have some very nice items. However, they have a huge amount of work to do if they are ever to become competitive with eBay. As encouraged by Peter in his weekly video, I registered with Catawiki as a potential bidder because I saw a couple of items on Peter's Catawiki page that interested me. The registration process was smooth and relatively easy. Regarding one item, I sent a message to Catawiki through their web site pointing out that the dimensions of the item as described appeared incorrect. I had an email the next day from them telling me that they would refer my question to an "expert."  On eBay one would simply have contacted the seller directly  and I usually get replies quite promptly. I have still to hear from the so-called expert. I sent a further message through their web site asking a couple of routine questions about bidding to which I have received no response. In all likelihood I will not bid and will just forget the matter. If one adds to these obstacles the fact that that even a successful bid will result in an additional 9% buyer's fee and there will be additional currency conversion costs to covert US dollars to Euros, I wonder whether the whole thing has any merit at all. Although I have had occasional problems with eBay overall I have been able to collect a number of nice genuine items relatively easily with a few clicks. Catawiki may have nice items but their overall approach is but a pale imitation of eBay's. It simply does not seem worth the time involved to try to bid with them.

Erroll, 

I've passed along your entire comment as this is exactly the type of thing which should not be happening. 

Let me know if you hear from them. 

best Peter

Thanks, Peter. This is exactly the sort of thing we need.

Hello Peter: Thanks for your interest! I still have not heard from Catawiki. I would like to emphasize that my questions to them were of a very mundane and routine nature and nothing of the sort that would have required any special effort on their part to respond to. One set of questions related to the bidding process and timing of an auction. The other question related to the dimensions of an item the answer to which they could easily have obtained from the seller. I would have to question whether anyone contemplating bidding on items that might sell for a couple of thousand dollars would or should feel at all secure in having any dealings with Catawiki after one has made a payment after winning at an auction. Even with eBay I have had issues. However, as you know, one can call them and they guarantee that the item will be as described or that one will get one's money back in the event one does not receive the item. Also, eBay allows payment through Paypal which does not seem to be accepted by Catawiki and Paypal also provides full refunds in the event of the problems. If Catawiki cannot respond to a few routine questions prior to an auction what confidence can bidders have that one could even reach them after an auction if problems with an item are encountered? I think that Catawiki does have nice items and from your weekly video they appear to be genuine. However, I'm not sure that it's a good idea to promote Catawiki on bidamount.com while they are not ready for prime time. All of us who watch your weekly video and use your website a lot feel more confident when something has your blessing and endorsement. Catawiki does need encouragement in getting off the ground, but I just don't see them as being a safe place to do business currently.

Kindest regards, Errol

Posted by: ErrolL

Hello Peter: Thanks for your interest! I still have not heard from Catawiki. I would like to emphasize that my questions to them were of a very mundane and routine nature and nothing of the sort that would have required any special effort on their part to respond to. One set of questions related to the bidding process and timing of an auction. The other question related to the dimensions of an item the answer to which they could easily have obtained from the seller. I would have to question whether anyone contemplating bidding on items that might sell for a couple of thousand dollars would or should feel at all secure in having any dealings with Catawiki after one has made a payment after winning at an auction. Even with eBay I have had issues. However, as you know, one can call them and they guarantee that the item will be as described or that one will get one's money back in the event one does not receive the item. Also, eBay allows payment through Paypal which does not seem to be accepted by Catawiki and Paypal also provides full refunds in the event of the problems. If Catawiki cannot respond to a few routine questions prior to an auction what confidence can bidders have that one could even reach them after an auction if problems with an item are encountered? I think that Catawiki does have nice items and from your weekly video they appear to be genuine. However, I'm not sure that it's a good idea to promote Catawiki on bidamount.com while they are not ready for prime time. All of us who watch your weekly video and use your website a lot feel more confident when something has your blessing and endorsement. Catawiki does need encouragement in getting off the ground, but I just don't see them as being a safe place to do business currently.

Kindest regards, Errol

 

I live in the US and I like Catawiki. Less worry about fake items, and less people bidding against you. 

The only negative thing I see is high shipping cost. Sometimes it is higher than the price of the items you win, but this happens on eBay also. 

I do think Peter should keep the list of items on Catawiki on this site and the newsletter. You do not need to go on Catawiki if you don't like the site. 

Regards,

Huy 

I'm sorry to keep harping on the inadequacies of Catawiki. However, the plot thickens. Through some detective work i traced down the seller of two items that Peter has on the Catawiki part of the bidamount.com website and I wrote to the seller directly with my questions about the items. I got back an email from him stating:

Hello Errol,

Could you please send me the information you have about this seller and any other pertinent information you have, including the item description and so forth and the eMail address and info on the Seller, something doesn't sound right..(obviously) and I want to clear it up. 

Best Peter

Hi Peter:

Yes and thank you. I will send the information to your personal email so as to avoid publicly maligning anyone. I simply don't understand what is going on with this matter. I know enough though to feel that something rather strange is going on. Because there are a number of websites involved, I might need to send you several emails.

Errol

I want to provide a follow-up to my earlier postings about Catawiki in this thread (see above).  I passed along the specific information to Peter as he requested in his above message. He has, in turn, forwarded it to Catawiki management. However, using the words "Catawiki" and "management" in the same sentence seems to be oxymoronic! I have already detailed above some of my problems with Catawiki. However, I'd like to summarize them here as a warning to those of you who might be tempted to bid there. The sequence of events was as follows:

a. Peter first posted two Catawiki items in the newsletter on October 26 and they were posted again on November 2 with the auction closing on November 4.

b. The items were a Wang Hing silver presentation cup and a silver tea caddy with a gilt rinse and semi-precious stones. Both derived from the Republican period.

c. I liked both and considered bidding on them. I almost always send questions  to sellers on eBay to obtain additional information prior to bidding. This option is not available on Catawiki. I sent two separate emails to Catawiki making inquiries about dimensions and other routine aspects of the two items about a week prior to the auction. I got an automated response that someone described as an "expert" would get back to me, but they never did.

d. Peter forwarded my complaint about no reply being provided to my emails to Catawiki but apparently got no response either.

e. I investigated the matter and found that the two items were apparently being offered for auction by a seller in the United Kingdom. I emailed him and in his response he stated as follows: "Please don’t purchase from a third party thinking that this could be a legitimate purchase. I include below a direct link to the Chinese section of my website, you can directly purchase any of these items from my store." I don't know what this means and I'd be interested as to how other members of the forum would interpret it. The silver presentation cup was shown on the seller's website at a cost of over $5,000.

f. I found also that the silver cup was being offered as a "Buy it Now" on eBay for over  $5,000 and on 1stdibs for almost $6,000. You can still find it there on both sites after the auction is over.

g. The auction took place on November 4. The "experts" estimated the cup as meriting a price of $1,140 - $1,370 and the caddy at $1,370 to $1,880. The cup realized $1,141 and the caddy realized $856 as the highest bids way below the asking price for the cup at between $5,000 to $6,000 on eBay and 1stdibs. Incidentally, the seller had first registered with Catawiki in September 2018.

h. The big question is what happens now? Will the seller honor the auction prices or will he walk away?

i.  I see that Catawiki's policy is that while they apparently hold the credit card payment to the seller until the item ships, if there are any difficulties their policy is to offer the seller's email to the buyer and let the two "negotiate." If the negotiations fail they will then "mediate" whatever that implies.

j. Presumably if the seller decides he doesn't like the final price, he could then just walk away and the buyer would have to get a refund on his credit card. I think the likelihood of the seller walking away is high since in his email to me he seemed to disclaim any knowledge of the items being available on Catawiki for auction. However, the silver presentation cup shown on eBay contains the seller's full contact information and the cups at the two sites look identical.   It is possible I suppose that I'm mistaken and that there were two identical cups and that the seller I contacted was not the person offering the items on Catawiki. However, this does not seem a likely scenario.

k. Since Catawiki apparently does not respond to questions sent to them on their website what would happen if after a buyer pays for an item via a credit card and the seller then simply does not send the item? With eBay and Paypal ( Catawiki does not allow payment using Paypal) one is guaranteed a full refund including shipping if an item does not arrive. However, how does one get a refund from an organization that does not respond to emails or that has no formal dispute process such as Paypal has? Would the buyer be left high and dry? Would the buyer's 9% fee be refunded by Catawiki or would they retain that even if the buyer never received the item and what of the shipping costs?

l. Because of the above considerations I refrained from bidding on either item. For all I know  some lucky buyer or buyers might get two lovely items at a fair price without any problems whatsoever. However, this is such a strange story. Has anyone ever encountered a situation in which a seller on eBay disavows any knowledge of an item up for auction?

I have taken the time to summarize these events as a cautionary tale to potential bidders on Catawiki. It is possible  that this was an anomalous situation and that other auctions on Catawiki go off smoothly. However, if there is a buyer's commission of 9% what does a buyer get for that seeing that they don't even respond to very basic email  inquiries?

My conclusion is that Catawiki auctions should be scrutinized with extreme caution. None of the protections available on eBay appear to be available on Catawiki. The old Roman principle of caveat emptor very much applies here.

Errol 

Wow!  Thanks for all that.

Were the items listed on 1stDibs and Ebay after the listing appeared on Catawiki?  Just vaguely wondering if a potential buyer of the catawiki items is trying to pass them on at a profit before he actually pays?

Bit hard as it is an auction, as no guarantee you will be successful.  All sounds very dodgy, though. 

Julia

I know the Shangrila Antique store, very well known, and featured on Peter’s handpicked list often including a permanent spot on his Buy It Now page, offers the same items on Catawiki and ebay’s Buy It Now. I guess when it is acutually sold on Catawiki, he would take it off on ebay. 

Hello Julia and Huey:

The Wang Hing Silver presentation cup was listed on both eBay and 1stdibs some time before the auction. Both sites showed that the seller was located in the same place in the UK. The silver-gilt tea caddy was not listed on either site to my knowledge. I had forgotten to mention also that the apparent seller did not set a reserve price for the Catawiki auctions. That immediately struck me as strange because the bids made it fairly obvious that the auction was never going to yield a selling price of $5,000 - $6,000 that he was asking for on eBay and 1stdibs. I checked this morning and the silver presentation cup was still listed as available on both websites, although the "special" price on the Wang Hing cup of $5,100 on eBay expires in 17 hours.

I know about Shangrila Antiques and know the owners, Bob and Freek, very well having bought several items from them through eBay. Both are excellent and very honest sellers who I would recommend to any one.

I do not want to imply that listing items on three different websites is in any way inappropriate or unethical. Indeed, it makes sense to do that for a seller since it increases his/her chances of selling an item.

Also, even though to me the evidence points to the seller in the UK as being the person who put up the items for auction on Catawiki as being the same seller on eBay and 1stdibs, he seems to be denying that the Catawiki items are his. I suppose it is theoretically possible that two identical Wang Hing cups with the identical blank cartouche for inserting an inscription are floating around, but I still think that is unlikely.

The proof of the pudding will to some extent come from whether the cup remains on eBay and on 1stdibs long after the auction is long over. Even that, however, will not be definitive because one cannot rule out the possibility that the top bidder didn't make a payment.

However, I still find the apparent seller's email to me to be amazing. If the items were not his surely any normal person would have replied to that effect? On eBay and on Catawiki it is made clear that once one has bid one has entered into a contract with the seller and Catawiki unlike eBay states clearly that a bid once made cannot be withdrawn. We all know that many buyers of Chinese art on eBay buy on a speculative basis and if they cannot turn the item around at a profit simply don't pay up at all. I have, however, never heard of a case where the seller actually reneges on the contract although I suppose there must be some of those. Every seller on eBay can withdraw an item apparently right up to the time of the auction, but it must be uncommon for sellers not to honor the auction results if they don't like the price.

I also would reiterate that I think to use a colloquialism Catawiki sucks big time! They are charging a 9% buyer's fee as compared to a zero per cent buyer's fee on eBay and they are offering nothing in return. I have bought $20 items on eBay that got more attention that these $1,000 items on Catawiki. If one reads the content of their website I also get the impression that they are trying to distance themselves from any responsibility if something goes wrong. How does one get any redress for a problem from a company that does not bother to respond? Peter should have a clout with Catawiki since a large part of his newsletter is devoted to their auctions for Asian art. If they cannot even respond to him what chance does the ordinary buyer stand with them if there is a problem?

I for one will just ignore that section of the newsletter in the future. 

Errol

Posted by: ErrolL

Hello Julia and Huey:

The Wang Hing Silver presentation cup was listed on both eBay and 1stdibs some time before the auction. Both sites showed that the seller was located in the same place in the UK. The silver-gilt tea caddy was not listed on either site to my knowledge. I had forgotten to mention also that the apparent seller did not set a reserve price for the Catawiki auctions. That immediately struck me as strange because the bids made it fairly obvious that the auction was never going to yield a selling price of $5,000 - $6,000 that he was asking for on eBay and 1stdibs. I checked this morning and the silver presentation cup was still listed as available on both websites, although the "special" price on the Wang Hing cup of $5,100 on eBay expires in 17 hours.

I know about Shangrila Antiques and know the owners, Bob and Freek, very well having bought several items from them through eBay. Both are excellent and very honest sellers who I would recommend to any one.

I do not want to imply that listing items on three different websites is in any way inappropriate or unethical. Indeed, it makes sense to do that for a seller since it increases his/her chances of selling an item.

Also, even though to me the evidence points to the seller in the UK as being the person who put up the items for auction on Catawiki as being the same seller on eBay and 1stdibs, he seems to be denying that the Catawiki items are his. I suppose it is theoretically possible that two identical Wang Hing cups with the identical blank cartouche for inserting an inscription are floating around, but I still think that is unlikely.

The proof of the pudding will to some extent come from whether the cup remains on eBay and on 1stdibs long after the auction is long over. Even that, however, will not be definitive because one cannot rule out the possibility that the top bidder didn't make a payment.

However, I still find the apparent seller's email to me to be amazing. If the items were not his surely any normal person would have replied to that effect? On eBay and on Catawiki it is made clear that once one has bid one has entered into a contract with the seller and Catawiki unlike eBay states clearly that a bid once made cannot be withdrawn. We all know that many buyers of Chinese art on eBay buy on a speculative basis and if they cannot turn the item around at a profit simply don't pay up at all. I have, however, never heard of a case where the seller actually reneges on the contract although I suppose there must be some of those. Every seller on eBay can withdraw an item apparently right up to the time of the auction, but it must be uncommon for sellers not to honor the auction results if they don't like the price.

I also would reiterate that I think to use a colloquialism Catawiki sucks big time! They are charging a 9% buyer's fee as compared to a zero per cent buyer's fee on eBay and they are offering nothing in return. I have bought $20 items on eBay that got more attention that these $1,000 items on Catawiki. If one reads the content of their website I also get the impression that they are trying to distance themselves from any responsibility if something goes wrong. How does one get any redress for a problem from a company that does not bother to respond? Peter should have a clout with Catawiki since a large part of his newsletter is devoted to their auctions for Asian art. If they cannot even respond to him what chance does the ordinary buyer stand with them if there is a problem?

I for one will just ignore that section of the newsletter in the future. 

Errol

 

 

Good point... Also, another negative for catawiki is that you cannot cancel a bid for whatever reason. If you made a mistake or wanted to change your mind, too bad - it is impossible to cancel.

It is also so annoying also that you cannot talk to the seller until you had paid for the items, but you already mentioned that, I think. 

So, besides the lesser traffic (sometimes) to allow you to get good price (occasionally), and more (carefully) vetted items being offered, ebay still has an edge over catawiki. 

Another (unrelated) point I want to concur: Bob from Shangrila Antiques is awesome. Their stuff is legit - they know what they are talking about. I bought 5 or 6 items from them already, and I liked them all. I strongly endorse buying from them, too. 🙂 

If I needed further evidence regarding how incompetent Catawiki is as an auction site (which I don't) I received an email from them today asking me to rate my experience with an agent who had supposedly helped me with the above problems. Since no one from Catawiki ever responded to my questions to them or contacted me this just adds insult to injury. To my knowledge, they did not respond either to Peter's two communications to Catawiki management. I tried to complete the survey regarding my overall experience and my experience with an agent from whom I never heard and surprise, surprise even the survey would not work!  I was planning to give them the lowest rating possible.  So I could not answer the usual question that is included such surveys namely whether I would recommend Catawiki as a buying site to friends and family. My resounding answer to that is NO, NO, NO. Even though  I'm sure many successful transactions occur on Catawiki every day, I just cannot imagine how much trouble a buyer would be in after having made a payment and then either not receiving the item or receiving it damaged.   There would be with no one to contact as one can do with eBay and other auction houses. I would assume from my experience that one would be in absolute limbo. eBay as an auction site has its limitations. The good feature though is the guarantee of buyer protection especially when the transaction is paid for using Paypal, a protection that seems non-existent with Catawiki. They are the gang that cannot shoot straight and I recommend avoiding them!

Errol

Dear Readers,

Despite the fact we don't often reply on any forum, we felt it necessary to at least let you know that we are aware of the issues mentioned above. We have a good relationship with Peter and Bidamount and we are doing our best to provide all you the best services we can give.  For those who want to get in contact with Catawiki for really specific questions, I suggest to forward your contact details to Peter and we will make sure you will get an answer.

Please find below some generic answers on how the Catawiki auctions work.