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Their online catalogue is great, they photograph of every side of each piece making it a useful study tool. Being internet-orientated, I think they attract bidders from mainland china by allowing internet bids (which is the way of the future in my opinion).
But the reliability of their experts seems to be questionable. Take this as an example: A guangxu mark and period dish with a qianlong mark! My mother with a 5min of google search would have known better.
Have you ever consigned with them?
No I haven't and I agree, the catalogues are far more informative photographs than many others.
Do you think this might just be a case of thinking one thing and writing something else? Not terribly professional, but it does happen.
Julia
Yes, I too think like Julia, it is not matter of not being experts in this case I think, just a mistake.
Giovanni
Maybe it is only a mistake but maybe not. I've seen this mistake made multiple times by auction houses unfamiliar with chinese porcelain; confusing a late 19th century qianlong mark with a guanxu mark. If not, it still mean they don't double check for mistakes before uploading their catalogue. It is a bit strange coming from an auction house of this size. It is what I meant by ''unreliable". You have to be careful with the claims they make.
Not to add all the very ambiguous dates they give as: 19/20th century, or prob. of this period or possibly later, when the pieces are likely brand new. Perhaps it isn't technically wrong but a bit deceiving nevertheless.
I would not be so rigid about this mistake.
I fully agree that they should be blamed if they claimed it to be Qianlong, but here they said what it is, Guangxu period. Saying Guangxu mark when it is obviously Qianlong it is a mistake like saying green when it is obviously brown; that is a mistake which especially can occur working with computer.
Giovannio
Hello,
I am certain it's typo. I've worked with Rob and his people in the past and have known him for over 15 years. He at one point had a shop in Shanghai. He knows the difference in marks. I suspect in the cataloging process, which can go on and on into the night, they just made a simple error.
Overall, I have found their dating to be quite conservative and descriptions very accurate. They are also very good at replying to questions.
Of course, in today's Chinese auction market, your question made absolute sense given the dearth of reliable sources.
Best Peter
Peter
Hello,
the issue mentioned above is, as Peter said, a minor error in an extensive catalogue.
Auctions with +- 1000 lots usually have one or two errors in them, even with proof-reading.
Time pressure is always on, and there is more to worry about than just the descriptions, when finishing a catalogue.
But indeed, mea culpa, an error it is.
However, we try to maintain good relationships with our clients. People are welcome to send in feedback, which we will take into account when appropriate. We have withdrawn lots in the past, based on such feedback.
Furthermore, we provide extensive photographs and condition reports.
While it is easy to single out a small mistake like the one above, please do consider the following.
We invest a lot of time, work and energy into properly describing our items. Errors occur and when they do, we try to set things straight.
To give you an idea of how far we go to properly describe our lots, have a look at this:
1) The current Christie's sale titled: Chinese Export Art Featuring the Hodroff Collection, Part IV. Lot 389 is 'A MASSIVE PAIR OF FRENCH ROYAL ARMORIAL DISHES'. (link)
Condition report reads:
'One dish (on the left in catalogue image) with a restored line extending from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock. The other with an extremely fine rim line of approximately 3 inches at 8 o'clock.'
Now compare to our lot 975, Oct. 2018. (link) (the same set of dishes)
Condition report reads:
'- One with a tight 7 cm hairline on the rim at ca. 7.30 o'clock. A superficial chip filled at ca. 4.30 o'clock on the outer rim. Otherwise in good condition.
- The other with a restored break acrossfrom ca. 2.30 o'clock to 9 o'clock, with related overspraying. Three tight hairlines on the rim of ca. 2-3 cm each.'
Quite a difference, no?
2) Another one?
Sotheby's, London, Nov. 8, 2017, Lot 4: 'A COPPER-RED 'DRAGON AND PHOENIX' LANTERN VASE QIANLONG SEAL MARK AND PERIOD' (link)
Condition report reads: 'The lantern is in good condition with the exception of an approx. 7cm., long vertical hairline body crack and minor glaze scratches.'
When we sold this lot in February 2017 (link), this was the condition report: "With a vertical hairline of ca. 11,5 cm going through the eye of the phoenix, visible on in- and outside and another hairline of ca. 6 cm visible on the inside only."
Why do I mention this?
Industry standards are set by industry leaders, such as the two above. They have several hundreds of employees worldwide. We have 6, including myself. When we are talking about the level of reliability (see initial post) vs. 'industry average', I believe we are doing a good job. And as such, I deemed it worthy to stand up and speak out, to defend our position and the work invested by my team and myself.
No need to explain Rob , It was a clear typo mistake .
At least they admitted said mistake/error. A number of houses would not do so.
Mark
Thanks Rob for stepping up and explaining it all so well..
Best Peter
Peter
Dear Forum members,
Be confident about Rob Michiels auctions. I have also kept an eye on their listings, and to date have never had occasion to worry much about anything they have offered for sale. All auction houses inevitably let errors slip by from time to time, and this must be an instance of such.
Mark, incidentally is entirely right. Whereas Rob Michiels has been gracious, some auction houses, by contrast, may be, let us say, grudging in the least if errors are pointed out to them. A quick story from my own experience, no names mentioned. I once pointed out to one of the big houses that a bowl they had sold me as being Qianlong mark and period was, in fact, a late nineteenth century copy (I should have been more careful, but since I was bidding online without having handled the bowl, I let my confidence in the auction house's reputation overwhelm my own initial hesitation; when I finally handled it, my original doubts were confirmed).
It all turned out reasonably in the end. Well, up to a point it did. I challenged the description of Qianlong in the catalogue, further research was agreed to, and the auction house later finally conceded to me and cancelled the sale. But in what lofty terms. No word of an apology for my having incurred time and cost for a trip to London to sort this business of their mistake out (indeed on this occasion, not a mistake arising from a typo, but from an error of judgment). I merely got a grandiose concession that 'we have reconsidered our original opinion'!
So there you go. Contrast Rob Michiels.
Regards,
Alan
I have been buying and selling with/via Rob and I am very impressed. He has a lot of knowledge and when in doubt, which happened with one of my items, he does not want to list it, and that makes him very reliable in my eyes. Him declining to sell one of my items increased my trust with him. He is also one of the few here around that does not deliberately add fakes into the mix. Many do, and i find that very annoying because you have to see the difference through the description, if you would not see it yourself, which is than just slightly different. Also, when you receive items shipped via Rob, it is packed extremely carefully. Knowing him I am sure this was just a typo.
kind regards
staartmees
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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