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Finally, found another same box
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/34338632_chinese-cinnabar-box
here you go.
Dear msv10bc,
I think I can presume to speak for everyone who has contributed to this thread by saying, I'm speechless!
Well, almost speechless, but not quite. I'm still puzzled, as I'm also sure other Forum members will be too. I'm not at all clear what was going on with your box. If as you say it is the exact same box as was apparently sold with Bukowski's only a few months ago for 380,000 SEK (that is, in Euro, for some 36,800 Euro or more), how was it that you acquired it for a mere 300 Euro? You also said that it had gone through a Belgian auction house. Which auction house was that? Bukowski's isn't Belgian, it's based in Sweden, with branches in Finland.
I think you must appreciate that with all the uncertainty and confusion that your listing created, it is not very surprising that members of this Forum became sceptical about the box's merits.
I hope it does very well for you, wherever you finally sell it.
Namaste,
Alan
Hello Alan
I never sold with Bukowskis. I just mentioned the link to show that another similar box was sold there. If I remember correctly, I mentioned in the ebay listing " Similar box sold at Bukowskis LINK". I do remember writing the word " Similar " rather than "Same" just to be cautious.
The box looks exactly same . Also dimensions are perfect match. No doubt. I believe multiple boxes like these were made . I would imagine 3 claws indicate provincial rather imperial usage perhaps made for Civil Rank officers/others . Hence multiple boxes just like porcelain items exist . I was astonished to see the result at Bukowskis but it happens.
I purchased it from a lady few years back . She told me that her husband bought it from Amberes Veiling in Belgium.
I did see a similar carved box on Lot Tissimo as well few weeks back. I believe got sold for 6000 Euros there. Looked exactly same . It is very well carved Cinnabar Box (not resin ) and sure more than few exist.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions
Kind Regards
Vineet
Dear msb10vc, your box isn't antique and it isn't hand carved. The box on the liveauctioneers link you posted, sold in 2015 by Kaminski's, has exactly the same crack lines around the mark as the Bukowski's box and your 'ebay' box, yet with ever so slight differences in the depth of impression. This is because they are resin and made from a mould, the same mould. Please see image below (they are 3 separate marks on 3 separate boxes)
You must be really bummed out that your incised and gilt decorated 18th century soapstone figure only made £67.
Dear Alan, he/she isn't saying it is the exact same box from Bukowki's, they are saying it is the same in the sense that it is a duplicate copy. He/she paid £300 for theirs, sent some photos to Christie's and Sotheby's and Bukowski's.. had some offers but didn't go through with selling it with them and just stuck in on ebay using crappy images from a phone because "a few thousand pounds would not make much difference" to them.
I have a fair share of experience in collecting Chinese Items. Not too much bit I can tell when things are Cinnabar or resin.
No need to argue on this topic as you have not seen the piece. To counter your argument - some bidders at Bukowskis must have seen the piece in person. It has same marks/cracks. Also I am not sure you understand the weight difference of resin and cinnabar.
Regarding the soapstone- I paid 10 Euros for that item in carboot. It is genuine soapstone I did go to bonhams to get it confirmed.
Did not do well on ebay since i was new. I cancelled the sale anyways. Perhaps people did think it was resin or you may have advised them.:)
Lastly regarding your comment about " Few thousands"- I do not mind sending the soapstone for free to any member on this platform. If he.she confirms it is a soapstone, You should not be in this business anymore or collect these items . Quite incompetent and unwanted remarks.
FYI- i am serious about sending the soapstone for free.
Also, regarding the image and depth. This shows lack of your experience.
The 3 images you provide all have different distance from camera. If i was to take the image 10 cm away from existing - it would look like bukowskis.
You need to see the piece. LOL
Anyways I just came across this forum and saw discussion regarding my item. I rather not get into argument with you. if its replica i will know when i take it to Sothebys. Dont need your comments and remarks
Thanks
I'm glad you mentioned showing it to Bonhams.
Your figure is signed Zi Xiu....
Bonhams sold a figure by Zi Xiu in 2015 for £97,000: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23439/lot/12/
See the ebay post. I mentioned Late Qing Period
Also, read before what i said. Showed it to Bonhams and they said likely worth 800. They did mention late Qing /Early 20th.
FYI- Even on porcelain there are marks that are attributed to previous reigns or famous figures. Never mentioned 17th century piece.
That robe is also a modern fake , the stitching is very crude , and they did not apply rank badges to this kind of apricot ground (woman's ) robe , it's just all wrong. The rank badge was applied to the outer coat.
tam
LAST MESSAGE for me here since I am not into education
The bird is facing left - So a man wore the robe. its red satin not apricot.
Google Informal Robe Civil Rank Qing Period. Also see above links.
Hi fellow collectors,
In this weeks news letter there is from antique_copenhagen a cinnabar lacquer box with imperial marks in gold leaf.
Any thoughts?
Best regards
Mark
A Chinese lacquer box, D.26 CMCondition: wear and damage due to age.
tam
Dear Mark,
I've not checked the particular box you mention, but I have noticed before one or two items offered by this seller that to my eye don't stack up as being authentic. That fact alone signals danger to me.
Of course, it's possible the authentic and inauthentic items can be sold by one and the same seller. This really muddies the water, and makes discriminating between the seller's items that bit harder unless you already have a decent level of expertise and know what you're doing. A guilty party in this respect is the eBay seller ecliptic_art, discussed a number of times before in this Forum and who yet again, shamelessly, is offering items for sale on eBay, dodgy though many of them are, even as we speak and getting substantial bids.
Alan
Thanks to both Alan and Tam.
Very much appreciated are your comments on said item and seller.
I also had some misgiving regarding this item.
Mark
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