Hi Alan,

Sorry to read about your misfortune with this seller. Given the high-price this seller tends to command for his items I take it that you paid a fair to market price.

It is disturbing to say the least that he has stonewalled you, and should have at least replied to your email, since you where not a new but a returning client.

This repair must be of a professional standard etc otherwise I would have thought that you would have picked it up when it arrived.

Four years is a long time to query an item bought on the pretext of being in perfect condition. This is assuming he still had the listings details etc.

He should have had the common courtesy to at least reply to your email.

Mark

4 years is a very long time. Technically speaking I do not think he has to give a refund, you can imagine how much havoc it would cause a seller if there is no time limit on when they have to give a refund.

This being said, from your perspective you know for sure that it was restored when you bought it and that you have not broken it and had it restored. It means that when buying from him in the future, you know that he may miss defects such as restoration in the description, bidding less as a result. Now that other people have been made aware of this it will lead to less bidding. So there is an argument to say that there is a practical interest for qing period resolving this issue with you that is seperate from the moral one.

Speaking for myself, if I knew for sure that I had missed the restoration in the listing I would give you a refund. The trouble comes in figuring out whether this is the case, especially after such a long time.

One thing qing period could do is search his image archives for this item, you could have a forensic look at the images to see if you can determine whether it was restored or not.

This is tricky , any decent antique dealer would surely consider such a request even after four years, unless his policy is no refund , no returns. He has mis-represented the item (or sold a damaged/restored item he thought was in fine condition, inadvertent misrepresentation) and therefore you could get ebay involved, but after four years they may not be interested. 

If the item is not so valuable , I would write it off to experience , or ask ebay, but if it's worth it , you could pursue it with Peter. Peter knows the seller qing-period and lists many of his items, so could possibly intercede for you. Qing -period would presumably respond in this case, especially as some/many  of his customers will come from the bidamount newsletter. 

I certainly think qing-period' s descriptions are not accurate. Maybe it is a language thing. He is selling a kangxi powder blue teapot or winepot , with extensively rubbed gilding , which is again described as 'perfect'. By definition , any imperfections make something imperfect. Allowing for language mistakes, this cavalier attitude to condition description rings alarm bells about a seller, for me.

Dear Alan,

sorry to hear that. In my occasional sales, I recently has been forced to switch to "no returns". I say that I have been forced to do so because I had some really incredibly disputes, one can't believe that; like for example a Kangxi plate that has been disputed because "the thickness of the glaze is not uniform". The fact is that ebay ALWAYS acts in favor of the purchaser, then I had to officially switch to "no returns" but as I say in my listings I undoubtedly accept a return in case that I have been wrong, like is for example the case that happened to you.

It is then a shame, in my opinion, that such seller, who is probably the one that gets the highests price on ebay, in many cases really absurd, will not accept a return where he has been wrong, regardless when it happened.

But I would add that personally, what makes me really furious is when somebody doesn't answer. That is not acceptable among civil beings, it is highly offensive to me.

Giovanni

Dear Mark, goldentoad, tam18 and Giovanni,

Thank you for your thoughts. It's a mystery to me why qing-period has chosen to stonewall and ignore me, for I have bought several items from him in the past, he knows from my track record with him that I'm a totally reliable, non-defaulting bidder (more than can be said for many on eBay), and that his stonewalling approach risks alienating me (which it certainly has been successful in doing). 

I may raise the issue with Peter, or possibly not, though at nearly USD 2,000 worth of purchase all in for the item in dispute, the sum isn't negligible. Whatever I finally decide to do, I'm advising you all on this Forum to be aware of my experience and be cautious with this seller as a result. Sometimes the idol turns out to have feet of clay.

Thanks once again,

Alan

The problem with returns after such a long time is that the item could have been broken and restored 10x over. I do agree that if it can be established for certain that the seller described the item incorrectly then they should give a refund.

Alan do you have any archive images of the original listing? If not I am sure that qing period probably does. It would be really good if you could point out the restoration in the original photos because then the case for a refund is very strong.

I am thankful for you posting this here as I will be more cautious with this seller in the future.

Dear goldentoad,

I don't have digital images from the original listing, no, but the restoration is highly professional, and wouldn't be apparent from the original images anyway. It was only much later, after a close search of the item was done by a friend of mine at Bonhams and with the help of ultraviolet light, that the extent of the restoration became visible. Either qing-period knew of this restoration, or he did not know of it, there can be no two ways about it. But whichever way, he should at least have replied to and acknowledged my concerns.

In view of my experience with him, it's conceivable that others might find themselves on the receiving end of a similar treatment if the condition reports on items that they buy from him are found to have misrepresented those items.

Regards,

Alan

Dear Alan,

I do agree that not answering is quite rude and uncalled for being a "stellar seller" like Qing-period.

However, I do hope that "ample time" means a couple of weeks, because even though he (they) might have seen the messages, they may need some time to come up with how to solve this and how to reply. They could of course write something like "will come back to you".There are also summer/school holiday, which just started in the Netherlands.

I am not sure what would be the best solution to your very issue should be, but i am very curious when (if) you get a reply and what he says.  I do understand your frustration and I am not disagreeing with you posting you concern, but I am a bit worried that the seller might get more negativity than he deserves as treads might tend to get out of hand.

Hope everything will work out.

Best regards

Adrian

PS: I do appreciate that this made me think for myself  regarding condition report and description. Especially regarding the Jiajing bowl. Is the piece "perfect" when is has quite some faults in the firing? Also a bit concerned about the small marks inside the bowl. I hoped that the reserve was $500, but that was clearly not the case. 

Wonder what it brings..

hi Alan 

there a phone number for qing-period listed under business details on his ebay page

you could phone them up, but echoing what others have said I think 4 years later is a long time

Dear learning247,

Thanks for mentioning the phone number, though if qing-period choses not respond to email communication, I think it unlikely that he will want to speak to me over the phone.

Yes, four years is a long time. Nevertheless, it still does not excuse his refusal to communicate, even were he to say what you have said, namely, that after a period of four years, he felt no obligation towards me. Strange business sense, this stonewalling, given that I have bought several things from over the years, and have unfailingly honoured bids if I have been his successful bidder. He should know full well I have a flawless track record as a buyer, and his behaviour has now lost him a future customer.

Perhaps more importantly, from the point of your own self interest, I would recommend that you should think twice about qing-period's condition reports if you are minded to bid on any of his eBay listings. Don't go just on my own negative experience, look back over this thread, and you will find others apart from myself who have found qing-period's ways of describing the condition of items he lists to be, at best, arguable.

And a final thought on the four-year period. The item I bought that was described as 'perfect' had been so professionally restored that the restoration was by no means immediately apparent. It could have gone undetected for fourteen years, let alone four. Only when carefully scrutinised with ultraviolet did the restoration appear. Is it likely that a near-invisible restoration is going to be noticed any time soon, soon enough, that is, to warrant reverting promptly to the seller about the fact that he sold a misrepresented item? Of course it's not likely.

Best wishes,

Alan

Hi Alan,

Unfortunately, from the looks of it, the seller is probably not going to give you a satisfactory response, but I hope I'm wrong. 🙂 From this event, I hope he can be more careful in describing these high value items, especially when restoration plays a major role in the selling price. Very nice of you to inform this community of the cautions needed when purchasing antiques from eBay.

Kevin

Hi Alan,

  I can see this happening to an avid collector. When in the zone we will call it a person accumulates and has in mind looking at the items acquired more closely in the future to evaluate the purchases. Yes items can be shelved for years before being analyzed and scrutinized.