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So lately the economy has been soft and Peter mentioned this is a time for great buys. I don’t want to miss the window of opportunity. So I got involved in an online estate auction it had a group of 5 imperial court rank badges 2 of them Military and 3 civil. I actively fought for all five one got away it was the king of the lot. It was due to bad connection and all five were being auctioned separately. I was wanting all 5 but I got 4. So my question is does a group of items help increase or decrease value. Second what percentage of an items actual cost should I stop at? I don’t spend thousands of dollars on an item or group and alway play very conservative but I have been losing some great stuff being jittery. Does anyone have some advice. I have money but I don’t want to just blow it down the shaft. I’m trying to purchase investments does anyone have a successful method.
Not much of a veteran, but...
Patience helps. I resell when I get too conservative, but the risk is greater with the better stuff. Sometimes, I see an item and just know it's right. I will get someone to help verify its authenticity first, and then I will push it passed its high estimate if I know it is mine. With this comes fewer items to sell, but I am only a hobby seller.
If you are buying for pleasure and possibly investment then I would suggest paying up to 60% of what it's value would or could potentially be.
The question is what is its value? Values are very different (in most cases) from auction to retailers. Higher end auction houses often will fetch 50% plus more than a unknown or lower end run of the mill auction house in most cases. But not all. It's very subjective on many things.
I am not writing or referring to high end or imperial pieces that sometimes are on offer with smaller auction houses. I am referring to the mid-range that you will find at both high end and smaller auctions.
The high end have the prestige that buyers (some) are looking for.
So if you think a piece is worth say a minimum of $1000 on bad day them I would normally pay up to 60-70%. But no more!
Of course everyone has different buying strategies. So I would be most interested in reading their thoughts.
I don't normally bid live either. Unless it's something that I really want. I normally do my research and leave bids.
Mark
It’s very hard to understand it’s value for sure that’s my issue economy trends and a lot of factors. And on top is the value even real. I did research on this live auction if they didn’t offer shipping like 95 percent of the live auctions this would have been a slam dunk but they did and the bidders from world wide got involved one of the names I recognized he goes to estate sales all over the country like Tim does. Either way I had more competition than I expected? One factor I considered was I didn’t have to pay shipping. When it’s a $25 to $100 no big issue but when it’s $500 each I get nervous.
@lotusblack Hi Brian. As I might have mentioned on occasion, I’m a former business banker, and I started buying & selling Asian antiques during the last recession in 2008. So, let me add my 2 cents….
First, I was not an investment banker - I worked with brick and mortar businesses that sold products and/ or services.
Treating art as an investment is not the same as buying and selling art as a business.
As a business, you buy art as a commodity below current retail (market) price, then you sell it for a profit as quickly as you can to generate cash flow. This is how I do business and most auction houses. Very little concern is given to the prospect of the value going up in the future of the art being sold.
As an investment, you would need an in depth understanding of who is buying, why they are buying, and what would make the buyer pay more years later - this is very tricky business. Unlike stocks, there are no financial statements to evaluate. The value of art is highly subjective, and the changes in popular taste as well as availability is unpredictable. For these reasons, I do not recommend buying art as an investment.
If you like art and wish to collect as a hobby, that’s perfectly fine.
Let me also point out that historically, as the economy moves into a recession (which we kind of already are in), art becomes a safe haven for the wealthy to store their wealth - prices on high end art go up. Lower and mid range art might go down, but there is no predictable way of knowing if or when the value might go back up.
Regarding your badges, if your confident you can resell them today with even a small profit, then you’ve bought right. If not, well, unless you have a lot of cash liquidity, perhaps you should exercise restraint the next time a buying opportunity arises.
And, if you just bought the badges because you thought they were wonderful looking, then great! Enjoy them for their artistic beauty and don’t worry yourself over the cost.
All the best.
Tim
@greeno107 Thanks Tim very interesting point of view. Honestly I will probably let Christie’s or Sotheby’s take a shot at the badges. I have seen a ton of badges sold at auction and these will fly off the shelves. Silk embroidery is hot so it makes since. I believe if I go by past auction results I should do well I just need to get them in the right hands. I agree we are already in a recession. This information will help with my retirement strategy.
Here is the one badge I lost yesterday in the live auction. 1st rank military badge Qilin. So I’ve been told that military badges bring the highest dollars. Due to the burning of them by officers after the revolution most that exist were purchased by western collectors and preserved. One thing I forgot to mention is these badges except for one was framed in museum glass. So I took into account the cost to frame a piece is this a good practice? I know a museum glass frame can cost $250 to $400 bucks depending on the size go much higher.
@lotusblack The value of the frame would only be relevant to a decorator/designer planning to hang the piece up for a client... collectors generally do not factor the value of the framing into the purchase price.
That said....uh....sorry to say it, but this badge looks fairly modern. I am not a badge specialist (and they do exist), but the colors do not look correct for Qing dynasty badge work. It looks like something from the 1970's.
The use of gold wrapped around silk is a well known technique used in the 19th c., but the detail in this badge is overly simple....they used real gold, so the look should be more vibrant, highly detailed, super elegant.
Perhaps this badge was made for a costume.
@greeno107 This was a rank badge for the wife of an officer. I had the badges looked at by a specialist because of the fakes they all had providence. She said at the very end of the Qing dynasties simple less valued badges were made because they knew they would be gone soon. I didn’t buy this one. She also told me Kesi badges are not faked to hard to make. I used Christie’s and Sotheby’s for mine I do see what you mean.
@lotusblack I just want to confirm you know that the badge you've posted is not kesi. Kesi badges, and kesi embroidery in general, is very hard to do... in fact I think it is a lost art. So, yes, kesi badges can not be faked. However, this type of cushion stitch does exist today, but was especially popular in theatre costumes.
Anyway, I put together a quick coparison of the badge you posted with similar military badges using gold thread. Going from left to right, it starts with the subject badge, followed by badges from early 19th c., to mid 19th c., and finally to Guangxu (the last).
I think what I notice other than the degree of stitching that differs is that all eight of the buddhist objects are present in the badges I reference, and in the subject badge, I don't see all eight, or perhaps they're just too small to really see clearly.
@greeno107 I hope it is real or the guy that bought it is out $1300 bucks I’m the only one in the auction to get the Kesi badge. I’ve been watching this auction on eBay this set of badges almost at $10000 as for the badge you are talking about here there were several bidders involved I might have owned it if the connection wasn’t so shaky.
@lotusblack The one selling on Ebay is late 18th to early 19th c.....AMAZING CONDITION! So, yes, the prices get up there.
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