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I've mentioned before my concerns that genuine old porcelains are being re-decorated, and I would like to point out a suspcious item, a hunt scene punch bowl, being sold by a very reputable dealer on Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/155065171522?hash=item241a9abe42:g:G0EAAOSwPGlixIo9
I'm familiar with Chamberlins, although I've never done business with them as a buyer or seller, but I know of many who do....they are legitimate sellers/buyers who do their best to represent the items they sell acurately.
That said, given the hunt scene punch bowl is already up to just under $2,000, I think anyone who is considering bidding on this bowl give it a very close look at the overall quality of composition, and the homogeneous nature of the enamels that all of which are unusually bright. This is especially true of the purple glaze used for some shrubs/trees is applied so thickly that it has pooled...something I have not seen in genuine Mandarin wares.
First, consider that in general, European hunt scenes were and are one of the most desirable patterns of 18th c. export punch bowls. While quality began to diminish at the end of the Qianlong, hunt scenes would have been considered the very highest level of Mandarin export ware, and consequently, the quality of these bowls should be exemplary. So, if you are thinking that lesser quality 18th c. hunt scenes might exist, I think this fanciful notion is one that will lead you to both financial loss and severe buyer's remorse.
The horses faces alone are reason to discard the piece as a fake - the horses are key elements in the scene, and the faces are comical (almost like the faces of Kangxi period horses) and the bodies bulky and clumbsy...not sleak like horses meant for the hunt.
So, let's just take a look at an example held by the reknown Chinese export porcelain gallery, Cohen & Cohen.
https://www.masterart.com/artworks/388/chinese-export-porcelain-famille-rose
You can click on the images and zoom in and out to see the detail. As you study the images, you should note that the rendering, although not true anatomic depictions, use consistantly detailed rendering throughout. You don't see some good qualities and some bad....everything is well rendered. Next, you should note that the colors are not all the same degree of brightness....some tones are subdued while others are bright....this creates depth in the absence of being a 3 dimensional object. Finally, despite the predominent use of iron red enamel, the bowl does not glow orangy red, but rather a subdued brick red...like a fireplace that has seen hundreds of years of use.
The wear to the overall bowl also reflects the bowl has been handled for hundreds of years. After all, this is export ware...it was intended for use, and should show scratches, enamel and gilt loss, and perhaps a chip or two.
So, just a word of caution before you potentially drop $5,000 on this bowl (that's about the going rate for an unbroken 18th c. hunt scene bowl).... take a look at the photos side by side....trust your eyes.
It is worth noting that genuine 18th c. punch bowls with sparse decorations (such as those with a simple monogram emblem) are easily found for roughly $500 or so. There is plenty of reason to suspect that these bowls are wiped clean, then re-decorated.
Just be careful.
@lotusblack Yes… they have good sources for good genuine pieces. Honestly, I was surprised to see this bowl.
@greeno107 I have a hunting scene bowl it’s not 18th century but the early 20th century copies the enamels are inline with this one. But the rendering is much different. I’m wondering if the saturation is being maxed out during photographing.
Juice1499 often gets some nice items. I have a purchased a few jades of them in the past. No problem at all.
But I do know of clients who have purchased suspect items from them. I believe that they mix good with a few bad eggs.
I agree with you Tim @Greeno107. I think it looks very odd for the reasons already posted.
I was asked for my opinion on a jade piece that they are currently selling. Funny enough Peter mentioned this same jade item in his latest video.
It's definitely not by Edward. I. Farmer in my opinion. The quality is not consistent with his known pieces I submit. The mark has been obliterated with only a letter A remaining and partial number.
It could be by Yamanaka or some other outlet. There were a number of them operating during the early 20th century. There was one who did do lower quality work generally speaking but his name escapes me for the moment.
The quality is mixed however. The elephant that Peter thought was quartz is actually low quality jadeite jade. The white jade plaque that forms part of the lid is potentially early to mid Qing period. The base is also low quality and mottled.
Personally I wouldn't buy this as the overall quality is low. With the exception of the white jade plaque.
Mark
A known Edward. I. Farmer mark.
They do have a very nice white jade carving that was sold previously but the buyer never paid. So it's been relisted. Josh has simply described it as antique. In my opinion it's late Qing period.
I love this Japanese silver bowl. Beautifully made and from the Meiji period.
The faces on the Chamberlain bowl look wrong to me.Both the Europeans and the Chinese. European faces from Qianlong should look a bit like a caricature, they usually have large eyes and full lips that look like a woman’s. Often red hair. The ones on the bowl look too „politically correct“ to me
I don’t believe they have stripped and redecorated an old bowl. The porcelain looks new to me. Also note the single flaw inside the rim (where it doesn’t hurt someone) and the many many felt pads…
Birgit
@imperialfinegems You have good reason to be suspicious... I am aware of a number of auction houses that have swapped out the jade on Edward Farmer marked pieces.
Wouldn't surprise me Tim. Even the elephant looks a bit odd.
I have seen a few odd looking pieces purported to be genuine. However, the jades were very low quality. And still sold for crazy money.
Mark
@lotusblack Are you willing to post a few photos? Honestly, I'm not aware that Mandarin wares were genuinely made after the late 18th c. / early 19th c.
I don’t believe they have stripped and redecorated an old bowl. The porcelain looks new to me. Also note the single flaw inside the rim (where it doesn’t hurt someone) and the many many felt pads…
That's certainly a possibiity, but Chamberlins is pretty good with porcelain, so I figured that if the porcelain wasn't right that they would not have sold the piece. I also thought I saw a slight warp to the bowl form...typical of period porcelain, but maybe it was just angle of the photo.
I'm working on something, let's call it a small project, to show how my theory of re-decorating could be taking place. I need a few months more, then I think I can show some results. I'm a bit concerned about the whole thing in the event that somehow I might get accused of creating the problem, rather than just uncovering what has been going on for some time.
@greeno107 Are you saying you know of cases where they took a genuine Farmer piece and took the nice jade he used off and then replaced it with lower grade jade so they could then sell the jade pieces separately and still sell the Farmer piece as an original?
@johnshoe I’m not going to elaborate on who did this… it was not Chamberlins.
However, people have been removing the old high quality jade from Edward Farmer pieces to sell in China for some time now…. The Chinese have no interest in the metal fitting.
To my knowledge, Farmer used excellent quality jade and other hardstones, so if the carving is choppy, then best to pass on bidding or buying.
@greeno107 Taking the jade out is fine, but then replacing it with other lesser jade and claiming the whole thing is original is simply unethical, and anyone who does that isn't anyone I would ever want to do business with, so if you ever want to privately reveal the details about who did this I would welcome the knowledge, but I understand your caution about what you say publicly, etc.
@johnshoe It would be hard to prove in a court of law, so there’s no way I will say publicly or privately.
What I will say is that buying Edward Farmer marked pieces is no different than buying Rolex watches or Gucci handbags….
You need to know for yourself how to authenticate, and generally, ANY deviation from the highest quality should be reason to suspect you are dealing with a fake.
If you don’t know for 100% certain - DON’T BID!
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