The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
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the report card of this auction house remain misleading - a kind reminder since they are selling again.
I talked to Mark (Admin) about Zacke last year. I know the reputation of this auction house. My friend who is an expert for buddist art was invited by Zacke, but refused to work with them after checking their auctions. Since then I always tell people to be careful with this auction house. And I don't own any of their catalogues. They are not helpful.
Peter's report card still gives this auction a good rating - which misled me and therefore I created this thread.
Did you write to Peter directly? I don't think he will read it here.
Birgit
@shinigami I did send mail to peter a few days ago. No response. Followed up with a kind reminder. Still no response.
He referenced Zacke on his latest video. I think he said something to the effect of him having some concerns but left it at that. I wish Peter would follow up on them. The bidamount rating continues to be high. Maybe these need to be updated.
It's on the global members page -> "Click to view all page options." -> "Auctioneer Report Card (check it before placing a BID)"
Here's the link: https://bidamount.com/bidamount-auction-house-report-card-asian-art
This thread is all about porcelain fake examples from Galerie Zacke. To be honest I am new to Porcelain - that's why I joined as a member and referenced lots of bidamount inputs (many Galerie Zacke recommendations, good scoring card feedback) but eventually found the one I was planning to purchase are fake items.
I do have a long experience collecting wooden items (hardwood, carved) for a long time. Since then I paid attention to wooden items sold by Galerie Zacke - I am 100% sure Galerie Zacke sells lots of faked wooden items without even looking at the details.
Create a log-in for youtube and and post your experience and concerns in the the comments for Peters video. Then people will see it and you are more likely to get a response from Peter.
Strange with Zacke BTW. He has had lots of really good authentic material in his sales in the past and probably still have. Why does he want to mess up his business with all of those doubtful items?
@avatar Great idea. I did so and posted the comment to
yesterday with two URL links pointing to this and another thread at bidamount. But it's removed 🙂 Does anybody know why?
You mean that your comment was removed? What are the items sold by Zacke in the video? I can't seem to find them.
I've watched this discussion without comment since I generally do not buy from auctions. However, I find the expectation that any auction house, whether it be Gallerie Zacke or Christie's, should bare the entire responsibility for authenticity a bit unfair.
First off, when an auction house errors on the more conservative side, for instance they describe a 17th c. piece as being 19th c., or under estimates the market value, are we (collectors) not the first to jump at the opportunity to exploit this mistake? Or, do you call up the gallery and advise them to ammend their description and estimate? I doubt any of us have done such an altruistic deed.
Secondly, in comparison to some other auction houses that sell only reproductions, how can we conclude anything more than the possibility that Zacke's made an honest mistake based upon the information they were provided by the consigner and/or what their in-house expert advised? We see it here in our Forum all the time... a very experienced person making a mistake about the assessment of a piece that someone posts photos of. Should we throw them jail, denegrate their reputations, draw and quarter their bodies?
Finally, and most importantly, are we not all responsible for our own personal assessment of age and authenticity? Asian art is a complicated field, and I suspect the true experts are more often than not working in museums, not auction houses. So, why would you risk substantial financial loss on buying a piece that you do not have adequate knowledge to assess its authenticity? Answer - because you're hoping to score an undervalued treasure, and when it doesn't work out as planned, you want someone to blame. Tsk-tsk!
Here's my recommendation for those who wish to play in the auction world:
A) Assume the auction house is looking only to achieve the highest sales result. Why? Because they're a business and that's how they make money.
B) Assume the description is based upon a general inspection of the physical traits of the object, and not a gaurantee. Why? Because that is exactly what is stated in the small print of EVERY auction house.
C) Don't buy something you're not 100% sure you know what it is that you're buying. Why? Because otherwise you're just gambling...go buy some scratch tickets instead!
D) Get the opinions of others before you buy at auction. Why? Because the matter of cumulative knowledge and democratic discussion has been well studied, and the results of these studies show the decision made in this manner generally lead to good decisions.
E) Don't spend money you can't afford to lose. Why? Because you can't afford to lose it - duh.
F) Keep things fun! Why? Because collecting should bring pleasure, not missery. So, if you're filled with regret after buying a piece of art (buyer's remorse), you might need a new hobby.
For those who don't get my humor, while I do hold these kind of feelings about buying at auction, just keep in mind that my list here is just a bit of fun (tongue in cheek stuff), so don't get bent out of shape over anything I've said here.
Deep breathes....relax.....think of karma sutra! 🤣
@avatar Great idea. I did so and posted the comment to yesterday with two URL links pointing to this and another thread at bidamount. But it's removed 🙂 Does anybody know why?
It might have been the URLS and links
I've watched this discussion without comment since I generally do not buy from auctions. However, I find the expectation that any auction house, whether it be Gallerie Zacke or Christie's, should bare the entire responsibility for authenticity a bit unfair.
First off, when an auction house errors on the more conservative side, for instance they describe a 17th c. piece as being 19th c., or under estimates the market value, are we (collectors) not the first to jump at the opportunity to exploit this mistake? Or, do you call up the gallery and advise them to ammend their description and estimate? I doubt any of us have done such an altruistic deed.
Secondly, in comparison to some other auction houses that sell only reproductions, how can we conclude anything more than the possibility that Zacke's made an honest mistake based upon the information they were provided by the consigner and/or what their in-house expert advised? We see it here in our Forum all the time... a very experienced person making a mistake about the assessment of a piece that someone posts photos of. Should we throw them jail, denegrate their reputations, draw and quarter their bodies?
Finally, and most importantly, are we not all responsible for our own personal assessment of age and authenticity? Asian art is a complicated field, and I suspect the true experts are more often than not working in museums, not auction houses. So, why would you risk substantial financial loss on buying a piece that you do not have adequate knowledge to assess its authenticity? Answer - because you're hoping to score an undervalued treasure, and when it doesn't work out as planned, you want someone to blame. Tsk-tsk!
Here's my recommendation for those who wish to play in the auction world:
A) Assume the auction house is looking only to achieve the highest sales result. Why? Because they're a business and that's how they make money.
B) Assume the description is based upon a general inspection of the physical traits of the object, and not a gaurantee. Why? Because that is exactly what is stated in the small print of EVERY auction house.
C) Don't buy something you're not 100% sure you know what it is that you're buying. Why? Because otherwise you're just gambling...go buy some scratch tickets instead!
D) Get the opinions of others before you buy at auction. Why? Because the matter of cumulative knowledge and democratic discussion has been well studied, and the results of these studies show the decision made in this manner generally lead to good decisions.
E) Don't spend money you can't afford to lose. Why? Because you can't afford to lose it - duh.
F) Keep things fun! Why? Because collecting should bring pleasure, not missery. So, if you're filled with regret after buying a piece of art (buyer's remorse), you might need a new hobby.
For those who don't get my humor, while I do hold these kind of feelings about buying at auction, just keep in mind that my list here is just a bit of fun (tongue in cheek stuff), so don't get bent out of shape over anything I've said here.
Deep breathes....relax.....think of karma sutra! 🤣
I did send the two exact images to the auction house, telling them it's a fake, asking them to correct (or check) a few other similar items. They refuse or no respond.
"Don't buy something you'are not 100%..." - that's why I think I should post on this forum, since everything in this forum regarding this auction house will lead people to 100% believe it's authentic. Many people that join as a member is to learn by reading all those things in this forum. So what about the other auction houses recommended by this forum?
"Don't spend money you can't afford to lose." - This fake item is definitely within my affordability, so I am following this guidance. However it's entirely a different thing from selling fakes. BTW, there is nothing can't afford to lose.
... and since then I paid more attention to items Galerie Zacke was selling - many wood items are fakes, very easy to tell. So it's not a one time thing. That's why I keep posting on this thread.
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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