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Let talk about Cloisonné

 
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Short Dong
 Short Dong
(@short-dong)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1546
02/07/2021 11:49 am  

@lotusblack  Yes, I did check out them earlier and noticed 15,000-20,000 on Christies. Those unique pieces by famous and important artists always go for huge money. I occasionally see one at an auction or ebay but never can compete with the prices they generate and neither know enough about the different artist stufio marks to be certain of the cost as an investment. Ando Jubei is one of only 3 of the most important cloisonne artist in Japan. So you are very lucky to have something very beautiful and also to have something that will serve as a very good investment. I am curious was it expensive for you and did you know it was so special when you got it. 

I decided to focus on just buying some very good examples of Japanese Meiji era cloisonne and a good 30%-40% of my collection have damage otherwise i would not have afforded them. EveryTHing i have in that picture including the Japanese laquer box would not have cost me more than £150 in total for everything. However I would dare you to try get some of those peices in todays market at anywhere near those prices. 

So while not a great invesment they are very good for design and decoration and history and I like them. A poor mans investment. 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 02/07/2021 12:06 pm  

@short-dong I buy everything from thrift stores yard sales estate and swap malls. I see pieces like yours prices are raising for Japanese works of Meiji period. Funny you talk about damaged Cloisonné almost everyone I handle has some. Your right about forgery on eBay etc. The Ando Jubei style is so copied it’s scary. But they can’t seem to master the 3D effect. One way to spot them is the wire is silver and silver on the mark. I paid a little more than my usually limited on this vase I believe it was about $86 dollars


   
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Short Dong
 Short Dong
(@short-dong)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1546
02/07/2021 12:16 pm  

@lotusblack That is brilliant, well done. That is/was not too far from the standard price for silver wire cloisonne in general some years ago, you could get quite good quality silver wire cloisonne at around the £100 mark, it was always the well known artist studio cloisonne with the mysterious backmark that ran up the item in price, and I guess you hit the jackpot with your vase for sure. I not as often but still scour ebay cloisonne and it is now becoming much harder to find the Meiji quality cloisonne. 

I am delighted prices are going up and that these are now more rare to find on the market. One gets exhuasted searching for rare treasures. It is good to just stuff everything into a cabinet and forget about them. 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 02/07/2021 12:22 pm  

@short-dong I’m not familiar with the “mysterious backmark” you mentioned do you have any comparisons I like learning something new.


   
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Short Dong
 Short Dong
(@short-dong)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1546
02/07/2021 12:23 pm  

i guess you can always find a damaged one cheap still to this day easy enough. I take back what i said, in relation to damaged silver wire, but those Meiji imperial looking ones are hard to find.  

£18

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124790376367?hash=item1d0e1607af:g:r3gAAOSwbu1g2fw4

£8.50

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174818947252?hash=item28b40570b4:g:sb0AAOSwTalgx8Q9

£3.50

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284355001358?hash=item4234e0fc0e:g:ttcAAOSw4Xhg3dDI


   
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Short Dong
 Short Dong
(@short-dong)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1546
02/07/2021 12:25 pm  

@lotusblack Most artists have their own backmark. The general run of the mill cloisonne have no back mark but the artist ones will always have a fancy impressed backmark 


   
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Short Dong
 Short Dong
(@short-dong)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1546
02/07/2021 12:30 pm  

Fore example:

Cloisonné enamel vase decorated with a dove in flight, mark of Gonda Hirosuke I (1865-1937), Nagoya, Japan c.1900-1910. (Cited from:  https://www.antiquers.com/threads/need-help-with-cloisonne-vase-mark.21987/ )

 

426d0446a18328f906a8202cc5f21895  the collection vase
7ec70eb749d6eb6dc78e66d6d33c670b

Cloisonne marks archive

 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 02/07/2021 12:43 pm  

@short-dong thanks now I understand. Studio mark. On EBay right now are many Ando factory pieces for sale but they are mostly copies. The great thing about this forum is you can compare if you take my vase picture and put them next to the EBay copies you can spot them pretty easily. Sucks that everything is copied today. 


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
02/07/2021 2:02 pm  

My pligue-a-jour bowl. Meiji period.

IMG 20210703 035818
IMG 20210703 035837
IMG 20210703 035901
IMG 20210703 035931

   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 02/07/2021 2:16 pm  

@imperialfinegems stunning piece love it very attractive.


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
02/07/2021 2:31 pm  

Hi Brian,

Thank you. I bought it earlier this year. It measures just under 5 inches. In pristine condition.

Was trying to buy this one from Jackson Antiques UK on eBay that just ended. It sold for £1220. 12cm high. Was listed as Meiji period. But I think it is probably early Showa. Nice example though. 

Mark

Screenshot 20210703 042606

   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 02/07/2021 2:44 pm  

@imperialfinegems was it marked?


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
02/07/2021 2:53 pm  

Hi Brian,

Yes it was. This made me think it was later rather than Meiji. 

Mark

Screenshot 20210703 044847

   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 02/07/2021 3:13 pm  

I thinking your right maybe even a copy. Is the auctioneer credible?


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
02/07/2021 3:24 pm  

Hi Brian,

It was on eBay auctions. I don't know the seller personally but a friend does know them very well. They are located in the UK.

My friend thought an excellent example from the 1930's. He is very knowledgeable on japanese. More so than myself.

Mark 


   
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