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Here are two wucai examples from Christie’s, the first is Ming, the second is 19th c. These are both iron red?
I guess I could be wrong on this.
Wikipedia seems to have an
opinion on the matter…
”The next development, Famille verte (康熙五彩, Kangxi wucai, also 素三彩, Susancai), adopted in the Kangxi period (1662–1722), uses green and iron red with other overglaze colours developed from wucai,”
So, they suggest iron red was adopted during the Kangxi.
Interesting discussion.
I think this vase is guangxu period to early republic period. It's in the styling of Ming. Very popular copies were made during this period 19/20th century. Pity about the China mark though.
Regards,
Mark
@clayandbrush I posted this earlier to this thread. It’s a Ming wucai vase and it says it uses ‘iron red’ right in the description.
You are right about this, and I am wrong…about this only.
Regards, The moon.
@greeno107 Come on, between Giovanni's very interesting use of the English language during these big debates and you thinking almost everything you find in a junk shop is some great treasure, this show is sure to be a hit. Perhaps your reluctance is just because you fear fame. Not being able to walk down the street without people asking you for your autograph, etc. I get it, it's natural to want to stay private. But let's face it, you guys were born to shine brightly. Time to be the star!
@johnshoe If given the choice to continue my life in obscurity, but still be able to shop as I please, or have fame and glory (and money), but not be able to walk into a shop without the store owners doubling their prices when they see me, I take the former.
Truth is, I love the hunt. I have enough money for the things I need to buy (but I’m not rich), and the things I like the most are relatively free.
If I had millions to spend on art, I would probably do something else.
Don’t get me wrong… I love the artistry. But, if that was all there was to it, I’d just sit in a museum all day and stare at the best collections in the world.
Not me. I’ve got to hunt!
@johnshoe FYI…as for my thrift store finds all being treasures… check out this fall’s Christie’s sale. You might recognize a piece!
Best as always!
@greeno107 No worries, i have the solution. We will simply dress you in a different disguise each episode. Nobody will ever see you coming and you will be able to hunt forever in relative secret, documented by a hidden camera of course. You see, everyone can win. Now I'm going to go see which treasure you'll be selling at Christies this fall.
@greeno107 Is it in the September 23 sale? If so the preview isn't up yet so I can't go play find the treasure quite yet. Is it that celadon thing you had?
Dear Greeno,
there is a simple reason why you can’t get the copper red overglaze enamel on polychrome ware, where the green is present.
It is because either the red and green are based on copper, the different result being due to the conditions of the kiln, if fired in oxidized or reduced atmosphere.
Then you can understand that it is not possible to have both colors together, hence the necessity of having the colors from different oxides, and not different firing conditions.
The red of overglaze polychrome enameled ware is always iron red, regardless the period of manufacture. It is true that they can change in tone, but that is depending from impurities, etc. The Japanese enamel red too is iron red.
The shards that you have shown from Gotheborg are underglaze red, not overglaze enamel red.
As for the dragons, genuine (not fake, which must never be considered for reference, being products of imagination and tentative of appearing more attractive) late Qing dragons do not have those typical Ming features, like the big scales compared to the snail type body, big round eyes, etc.
Regards,
Giovanni
Thank you Giovanni, that’s very interesting. Here’s a Guangxu tea caddy decorated with underglaze red, is it copper oxide that was fired in one go together with the underglaze blue?Sorry for mixing in another item but it’s a good opportunity to ask the expert.
Birgit
Dear Birgit, you are welcome.
yes, underglaze copper red, fired once with the cobalt blue. These are not common like the overglaze iron red, because notoriously difficult to be fired successful together. Your tea caddy is very successful fired; a nice one! It even looks older than Guangxu, but I do agree that it must be of that period.
Regards,
Giovanni
Thank you!
Birgit
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