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This tea jar is very good quality for a copy/fake and do you have an image of the foot ? I'd like to see more.
Best Peter
Peter
Hi Peter,
I got a picture of the bottom of one of them, I had sold it believing that it was genuine, it was sent back from China stating that it was a fake. Then I showed it to somebody who has been dealing in Chinese porcelain for a very long time and he said the glaze and the foot was not right, but that it was a really good copy. I have actually been to a place in England, which I am not going to name, that sells very good copies/fakes. The person who told me the jar was a fake told me it was a good place to look and learn and not get caught out so easy again. Some of the stuff they sold was really good quality and not cheap, it was all sold as copies not pretending to be the real thing. I believe some of his best customers are interior designers.
Thanks for the pictures, that ripply glaze is also a dead giveaway and the squared foot with that brownish tone full of impurities. Thanks for posting this. You can also now see the brown "grease stain" applied to the mouth much better. I agree about going to places that sell obvious and not so obvious fakes, many auction houses are also good places to learn these days, jusy leave your checkbook at home. Also take pictures!!!
THanks again, Peter
Peter
Hello Everyone,
Wow... Joanies again... well the Butterflies Vase Guangxu mark listed at Joanies is not Guangxu period nor 19thC! The Butterflies Vase sold at Prince Castle Auction, Texas is 100% Guangxu Mark & Period. Look closely on the details of drawings, footrim is 100% different, enamel on the ebay piece is hard, white porcelain is too white for guangxu period, gilding is different, borders on the foot is totally different and many other areas is different.
I was bidding up against another 'never give up bidder' for the Prince Castle Auction up until $45K!!! Before bidding, I have also checked with Sotheby's to verified and it was similar with another piece that was auctioned at Sothebys years ago for HKD600,000+- and also 100% genuine. So, when I saw this piece of butterfly vaseon ebay, I was immediately drawn to it... but after 10 mins looking at all the photos. I just said, wow another no so good piece trying to find a newbie for a sucker! That's the thing about Joanies, sell 3 good genuine pieces, slip in 5 bad ones!!! Please read Joanies descriptions and provenance, they're all the same for a very long time... Kept using the same old trick... I guess Joanies was hoping to catch the Chinaman Newbie's buyer more, rather than Asian Art collectors! For those that's no sure of an item, just walk away, there's always another piece of artefacts would pop up somewhere... Enjoy the journey of collecting...
Btw, Peter, keep up the good work...
Have a look at these examples and hopefully we all learn... 🙂
Here's a few photos for comparison from Prince Castle Auctions... and 2 photos of Guangxu Famille Verte Jar
It's very interesting to learn from this thread that a person by the name of "Joanie" apparently does not exist. I have bought several items at eBay auctions from Joanies House of "Treasures." Prior to bidding I always wrote to Joanie using the eBay message system asking for further details about such matters as sizes of items, conditions of items and provenance. I received replies signed by "Joanie." Not only that but "she" implied in several messages that she was an older woman working out of her home in Barrie, Ontario with the help of her daughter, Holly, and even the grandkids. At one point "she" told me that she was taking a couple of months off to undergo joint surgery. If it is true that a person by the name of Joanie does not exist and that Joanies is just a company name, what was the reason for this elaborate deception? Why not simply send a business-like reply? One can only conclude that this was intended to increase my comfort level and make me feel sure that this innocent-sounding older woman running a family business would never stoop to inventing false provenances, affix false labels to items, sell contemporary items as belonging to the Guangxu or Qianlong reigns or being dishonest in any way. If there is a Joanie I think she should step forward and provide a family photograph of herself posed with her daughter Holly and the grandkids so we can all be assured that she does exist. Otherwise, those of us who have been loyal customers might have to draw the conclusion that the entire operation is one big sham. I certainly will never bid on one of their items again! The withdrawal of the butterfly vase from a recent auction and the apparently fake blue and white Qianlong vase mentioned recently on this forum raise grave doubts about the honesty of the entire operation.
Joanies is owned by Jeff Pither and Holly Parkes is an account manager.
Like all things in life you must judge things for yourself and then bid or not bid accordingly.
We are all responsible for our own actions.
Dear Erroll,
What you say about the elaborate biography that has been spun to you, in the light of Peter's earlier post that 'Joanie' does not actually exist and is a work of fiction, is very concerning, and should give everyone reason to pause before hitting the eBay bid button.
That said, it's even more complicated, because there are some undoubtedly authentic items offered for sale by this auctioneer as well as dodgy ones; it's not simply a question of wall-to-wall fakes. So if you think about it, this makes it all a bit more insidious. It surely leads to the conclusion of 'buyer beware'. I have seen a mixture of some really good stuff, and some outright fakes, coming up for sale in the same listing, indeed, I own items bought from this seller that fall into both categories, the real and the fake, as per an earlier post I wrote.
As I said in that post, although I still look at what the, as it now turns out, illusory 'Joanie' has to sell, I start from my own knowledge base when I make up my mind. I pay no attention whatsoever to what 'Joanie' has to say about any of the items being offered. That's ok, because I've been collecting for a long time, but it's not ok for people who are newcomers and who therefore rely more heavily on the descriptions. They may be lucky and be well served by what is said, or they may simply end up being misinformed and hence, for one reason or another, being taken to the cleaners.
Best wishes,
Alan
Dear Alan:
Yes the word insidious is a good way to describe the situation. You are obviously very knowledgeable based on many years of study and collecting. I can identify quite easily the obvious fakes that account for about 95 percent of the Chinese "antiques" offered on eBay. However, if one looks at the recent "Guangxu" butterfly vase offered by Joanies and that was withdrawn by them, that is by all accounts a fake at a much more sophisticated level. There is no way even a collector of long standing can easily identify the subtle give away points discussed in detail on this forum. You are correct too that Joanies does offer very good items and I have bought some of these. However, when there is a mixture of good and fake items, it undermines one's entire trust in a company. The mixing of genuine items with fakes is, as you say, far more insidious than when eBay offerings by a seller are full of obvious fakes. The risks to the buyer are far higher.
Regards,
Errol
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