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Recently I purchased this plate which was recommended by this web. It was dated as Yongzheng which I believed. Last Monday I took it to an auctioneer for evaluation and was told it is a later plate (not Yongzheng, but still Qing), because its quality is not high. How do you think? Thanks.
Jim
Dear Jim,
I wouldn't worry about this, the plate looks perfectly alright to me for being second quarter of the eighteenth century (which would cover Yongzheng and into early Qianlong). When saying the plate was later Qing, did the auctioneer you consulted mean that it was nineteenth century? If so, I don't believe he is correct.
So you're fine, rest easy.
Alan
Dear Jim, what is not correct on that plate is only the name that you gave it, wucai. It is not wucai, it is famille verte.
It is Yongzheng. Do not believe auctioneers nor antiquarians unless they have a recognized experience on Chinese ceramics. Most claims to be but they are not indeed.
Giovanni
Ha! dear Alan, we did post at the same time, haha
Giovanni
Isn't this chinese imari ? given the red , blue and black palette? and the gilding .
I think it's certainly C18th , yongzheng or qianlong, but not C19th
tam
Dear All,
Thanks for all the responses. It is a B&W (underglaze B&W and red) + Wucai (overglaze colors including blue and black colors) and gold gilt. The seller dated it Yongzheng, but told me that he believed it could be Kangxi.
I bought two plates from the seller, and both were dated Yongzheng. The quality of the second one is apparently worse than the above one. I am posting two figures of this one as well.
Jim
Thank you, Alan and Giovanni. Tam, it is not Chinese Imari. Imari will be full of Blue and Red, no green and other colors.
In Chinese, it is called 青花(B&W), 五彩 (Wucai), and 描金(gold gilt).
In Chinese, it is called 青花(B&W), 五彩 (Wucai), and 描金(gold gilt).
Alan: Yes, the guy said it is 19C. The glaze of the first plate is much thicker than the second one. Also the first one contains more fire pittings.
Dear Jim,
I insist. This is not wucai, it is famille verte. The gold is not in the wucai palette.
Giovanni
Dear Giovanni,
You are right - it is called famille verte. In Chinese, we traditionally call it gilt Wucai. Thanks.
Jim
Hi Jim
In my experience with auction rooms, I took a vase some time ago to local auction room the vase was a large cloisonné and this guy could not stop picking it up and looking at it. I was a bit stupid then and alarm bells should have rung, but they asked me to sell it which I did. Dumb move and they let it go for £300 I was gutted as I told them not to let go for any less than £350. I then found out that they must have had someone to sell it to. The point is they really just don't no and they only a small amount of information on Chinese items and often have to bring someone in to have a look, and then they don't know. That is why this site is good so we all can learn and every day is a school day in here. Thanks to all above members.
Regards
Chris
Dear Jim,
Are you Chinese? It is the first time that I hear about “gilded wucai”.
To my knowledge, the type of decoration on your dish is called yingcai (hard colors) by the Chinese.
Giovanni
Dear Chris: Thanks for the information. I went to Auctioneer just for evaluation not for re-sale.
Dear Giovanni: Yes, Chinese call Wucai as Yingcai (hard colors), and in opposite call Fencai (famille rose) as soft colors. Wucai with Gold gilt in Chinese is 五彩描金, that is what I meant.
Jim
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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