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I think you’re correct. I’ve spent the last few hours reviewing Peter’s videos and some other sources and I think it is later thank Kangxi.
Also, like other’s have also mentioned, if one was selling a MP Kangxi piece one would go to town on the photos, whereas these are terrible, very suspicious.
Nic
It sold for £137 and if not Kangxi then I guess what Giovanni has said is absolutely correct. However as Michael has pointed out, the item was described as Kangxi era so I again believe Fraud is the greater driving force rather than naive buyers.
In any event if this Jar is not Kangxi then the buyer could theoretically get their money back by getting a quick appraisal but they will still be down $12.
Irrespective of all of this. The purpose of the thread was to raise the issue of whether we are seeing higher prices than in the last say 5- 10 years for Chinese Asian Art, I also would love to hear peoples opinions about the Japanses Market. Peter has indicated higher prices and from what i see just on Ebay, is higher prices in many items, lower in others and less Japanese out there.
Dear all,
just to clarify some points.
Dear ShortDong, the link that I have provided is showing, for some unknown reason, a bronze vase, but it is indeed related to a b&w Japanese vase. Click on it and you will see.
I do not believe that that pair of jars, previously sold by Christies, could be of interest for Chinese Museums. I personally would not pay 400 dollars for them, because not of the period they are wanted to be, hence worthless for my approach to collecting. And the painting is really naive, no artistic merit.
In my personal opinion, making the listing private “for protecting bidder’s identity” is a VERY poor excuse. Actually it is protecting seller’s shill bidding, there are no excuse about that IMO.
I DO NOT bid on items that have a private listing, regardless who is the seller. It is simply not honest. There is no way for identifiyng the bidders in normal listings.
Dear Nic, I agree with you that prices should be discussed, I had that same problem for long time at my beginning. By saying that prices means nothing I was not meaning that they should not be discussed. I was meaning that the prices reached by some items are not to be taken as reference, for the reasons discussed here.
I agree that the small jar is not Kangxi. Never seen a Kangxi mark on such small jars, when genuine.
Giovanni
Hi Giovanni,
Do you mean this Vase was the one that sold for 20k.
SUMMERSGILLS AUCTIONS
Chinese Vase (30CM)
It is a very interesting vase in it's own right.
The Prunus jar is clearly 19th century , A mark and period Kangxi jar would be £2000 plus i presume.
obviously some people got carried away.
Carl
Yes ShortDong, it is that vase.
Giovanni
I agree with all that has been said about the prunus jar - and more besides. I have just been scouring those awful pictures for some sign of it being Kangxi and have seen nothing. Going back to why people bid, this is a good example of why one should *not* bid on items described as period that come with blurry pics. If the seller is good enough to recognise authenticity, then he/she should also recognise the need to illustrate that claim well.
As for being "rare", that word always annoys me if it isn't justified because I feel it is a bit of a trigger word for inexperienced buyers and may also explain why people get carried away on unworthy items.
I think that money is normal enough for a nice 19th century prunus jar , they are collected. If any dealer really thought it was Kangxi it would have fetched a higher price.
Carl
A very interesting thread. As Giovanni mentioned there are many, not just one or two, reasons that can and do influence pieces sell for. As far as Chinese art is concerned one of the main reasons is the diminishing supply, both for dealers and auction houses, of genuine Imperial and high quality objects. It is getting very difficult to find such pieces, and this has impacted and push both estimates and prices upwards for medium and lower quality objects. However especially for the auction houses if the estimates are to high, also often seen, then the objects fails to sell. This could be because the estimate was incorrect, but also due to the consigner been unwilling to accept a price lower then the estimate. Another factor can be the Chinese shifting focus from one particular area/field on to another. As for Japanese art, I know several collectors who have moved away from buying Chinese ceramics and are now concentrating mostly on Japanese pieces due to the large increases for Chinese objects.
I would also concur with what others have said about the Kangxi jar, the mark/foot is wrong.
Stuart.
Regarding the discussion on Kangxi prunus. What is the opinion on this? Are these turning rings on the foot? Or are they just very well done cut lines, done so carefully they appear to be turning rings?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F233140061434
Nic
Nic,
Well you may not know until you got it home and cleaned it. Guest and Gray have a fine reputation so would err on the side of it being authentic. I have brought from them and have been very happy. But even the great and the good have made mistakes you are right to sound caution as Brigit often says dirt should be avoided.
I am going to be really cheeky now hope nobody minds.
Michael
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264255338320
Nic, this is funny. Just yesterday I went to Guest and Gray to retrieve my plate and saw this prunus jar standing before me on the shelf. The ice crackle is applied carefully, not just dabbed on as on newer pieces. Guest and Gray may not be cheap, but they are absolutely trustworthy and know what they are selling.
Birgit
Here is a list of this weeks lot's from different sellers that got higher than usual results ( in my opinion) They stand out for me.
Japanese Arita Moulded Dish -1660..........
Width 15 cm Condition: Perfect
Famille Rose Madarin 18thc............
9 inches in diameter and is in very good antique condition.
19th Century Prunus Jar.......... the height of the jar and cover is 37cm.........chips around the side of the foot rim of the jar, otherwise the condition is absolutely perfect
famille rose figural "Canton" plate - Qing dynasty - 19 th century...........
Japanese Cloisonne Oriental Storks & Flowers Brush Po
- Made in the late 19th or early 20th Century, in
- There is an old flat enamel chip to the side of the pot (photographed) and some patina and verdigris to the mounts, commensurate with age. Otherwise, it is in very good condition with no other chips, cracks or restoration.
- The box measures approximately 3" in height by 3⅜" in length and 3" in width.
Fine Chinese Porcelain Iron-Red Plate-Figures-18th C.Kangxi
Age: Kangxi period(1662-1722)
Size: Diameter 223 mm.
Condition: Near perfect! The plate just has few very small chips at the rim.
Japanese cloisonne jar, dating from the Meiji Period (1868-1912).
there is a tiny 5mm frit to the lid that is also on the inside.
This large jar measures 30cm in height and 16cm at its widest point.
Hi everyone,
I hope it didn’t sound like I was questioning the integrity of this seller. I wouldn’t know a real one from a hole in the wall! I was specifically interested in what appeared to be turning rings on the foot. The reason is that a week or two ago, an item featured on this forum that had turning rings/tracks/lines on the footrim and the advice was something like “if you see these on a Kangxi piece, run a mile”.
Like I said, these could just be very precise cut marks? I asked in a desire to understand rather than question any particular seller.
Every day’s a school day ?
Nic
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