Dear Short Dong,

prices, today, means nothing. It all depends from many factors. There are a lot of bidders who knows less than nothing and this can explain some things.

Do you want an example? Look at this vase:

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/summersgill-auctions/catalogue-id-srsumm10046/lot-a17595eb-39dc-4df3-ad87-aa0f01121b72

It has been sold a couple of days ago at a local Auction house in England. Starting price of 2 pounds. Two pounds!!

It has been sold for about 20,000 pounds. Yes, 20,000 pounds!!!!

But there is a little detail, that vase is not Chinese, it is Japanese. And we all know that today the Japanese ware is highly under-rated. It means that at least a couple, or more bidders, thought that it was Kangxi.

I saw those two jars that you are talking about, and frankly was really surprised in reading that they have been sold by Christies, because they are quite naïve under the decoration point of view. I think that some bidders just read “Kangxi” and not “Kangxi 19^th century” which, frankly, is a questionable way in making a description.

Prices on ebay are strange, some sellers are always reaching high result. In particular, they are having bids since the beginning, increasing continuously day after day, which is absolutely strange to me.

Giovanni

Wow , The shape looks Japanese straight away to my amateur eyes.

Carl

This is a really interesting topic. I’ve been wondering what is going on too because some pieces seem to reach a very high price whilst others sell too cheaply. Could it be that many people, like me, are pretty clueless so everyone is bidding on the safer pieces?

Last night, there were 6 or 7 bronzes ending on ebay. They were all on the bidamount newsletter. Each one was doubling or tripling in price in the last 10 seconds. I am wondering if this was due to amateurs like me going for it because they had confidence that they weren’t fakes? Every single one reached £1000. It was a good day for the seller!

When you’re an amateur, it’s not just that you lack the knowledge and experience to recognise a genuine piece but you also find it difficult to know how much you should pay for something? 

Deciding how high to bid is something I find very difficult. I usually underestimate and lose out. But maybe others just go for it and don’t mind if they’re paying too much?

Nic

Dear Nic,

It seems that it is exactly that, many bidders are unexperienced and do bid according to the quantity of other’s bids.

That is a very dangerous policy, as shown by that Japanese vase and other examples that I have seen.

If you are not in conditions to have an idea about the average value of a type of ware, it is better not to bid.

Just a note: I am not saying that that Japanese vase has no value. I am not expert on Japanese ware, but I see that today it is largely undervalued. While many Chinese ceramics are frankly overvalued. What I mean is that evidently the bidders competing about that vase were evidently convinced that it was Chinese.

Giovanni

If the item is under priced there will be a higher volume of 'snipe' ( last second snatch)  bidding in the final few seconds and also much of the snipe bidding in now mandatory because there are third party applications that dealers can use that automatically enter bids in the last few seconds on their behalf.

This can sometimes get the dealer low interest but valuable items selling on ebay for a fraction of the retail price, if there is not enough bidders or more correctly if there is no other last minute bidders to prevent the auto third party application. 

You will see Snipe bidding  on items of high interest and value, anything item that  is desirable to a dealer or collector will nearly always have these snipe bids. However i can usually tell if an item is going to have much of a volume at the end of bid. So it is possible to find these items knowing they will sell for a very small price but even with these you can encounter auto third party bidders. However sometimes you can get lucky 🙂 and get high interest items for whatever reason. I bid on the last 1/8th of the final 2 seconds which if there is a price slot free can win it over a third party application. 

Those vases that sold all had private bidder identity which usually means auto third party apps were bidding. Maybe they are not great vases, but it is possible they were desired by a Museum or a Collector for whatever reason. I do not think it was bidders making the mistake of the item being Kangxi , however that also does happen but more likely a Chinese museum or collector was competing with another to get them. 

Hi Giovanni

I am not sure why the Bronze sold for 20k, it may have been a misconception of it's true origin by two competing bidders but at that price it is unlikely to be the case. Peter did say in his latest Video that Japanese art, especially the more beautiful crafted items  were getting higher and higher prices. So we are seeing an uptrend in Japanese art. 

There are some buyers that do pay huge sums for fakes. We have seen that happen. However that is fraud and not really a lack of attention by the buyer. 

I myself actually like Japanese as it is accessible to my price and budget. If i can get Chinese blue and white, at under a certain price i will get it over a Japanese as the Chinese blue and white have a certain style and beauty that suits interior decoration, but i personally prefer Japanese for investment as they really can sell cheaply. 

I bid on this pair of famille rose square vases that were in Peter’s newsletter. Or I should say, I tried to bid. With ten seconds left it was at $168. I tried to put in a bid of $210 with about five seconds left, but I was already outbid. It went for $1026. ? Todd

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qianlong-Period-Pair-Antique-Chinese-Famille-Rose-Square-Vases-Falangcai-/192860402216?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

About what you said Goivanni

Here is a good example of buyers bidding on the Kangxi Name. 

Here we have a very small (11cm H) Prunus Jar and typically these can sell for a few pounds, £10 -£20 would not be unusual for a 19th century small jar like this. I think i can see orange peel on the base but i do not think this is a Kangxi.  

However this is being sold as  a Kangxi and had a much higher than normal price. If it is a Kangxi then the buyer is getting a  good deal and if not then they are wasting their money. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-ANTIQUE-CHINESE-MARKED-KANGXI-1662-1722-PRUNUS-TEA-CADDY/293012765830?hash=item4438ebfc86:g:9VwAAOSwmlZcj6DK

Posted by: Watership

I bid on this pair of famille rose square vases that were in Peter’s newsletter. Or I should say, I tried to bid. With ten seconds left it was at $168. I tried to put in a bid of $210 with about five seconds left, but I was already outbid. It went for $1026. ? Todd

 

That is such a huge jump in price in less than 10 seconds. 

The bids marked private... are they perhaps, the third party applications?

Hi Giovanni,

this is why I think the practice of not discussing prices is generally unhelpful. I totally understand the reluctance to give valuations, but I think discussing value in general terms is helpful. Saying a piece is worth 200-300, for example, prevents new collectors from being duped or tricked? It could still mean that an item only achieves 100 or it could fly and achieve 400, but a general guide like one has at auction would be extremely useful?

Hi SD,

It’s very interesting that you should choose this prunus jar. I was looking at it just last night! I too had my doubts, not because I don’t think it is Kangxi (I don’t know whether it is or not) but because I know that items appear on the Bidamount list even if they are mis-described. I’d be too afraid to bid becauseif I won and then Posted it here in a few weeks, chances are I would be told it is not Kangxi!

I’ve made this point before - if an item on Bidamount is described as Kangxi but is actually 19th century (or other) it really is awful for beginners. Presumably it is worth more if it’s Kangxi, so how is a novice supposed to gauge how much they should bid unless they know categorically what period it belongs to?

I am personally becoming very disillusioned, it seems that no matter how careful I am,  no matter how closely I follow all the good advice, I end up making a mistake! 

Nic

Deal All,

Yes the great mystery of Ebay bidding I just don't get it ? I especially don't get it when I am selling items more's the pity.

Cheers

Michael

Dear Nic,

I to looked at that Prunus jar but the photo's of  the base were atrocious so I left it. If I were lucky enough to be selling a mark and period Kangxi item I would make sure all the pic's were 100% clear. The seller in this case actually states mark and period in their description so if it proved other wise you would have had strong grounds for a refund. No matter how clear the photo's ,  or how favorable recommendations are I always contact the seller prior to the sale and ask then directly how confident they are in their description of their item and then gauge if I will bid based on their answer. There have been cases where the seller says sorry I mixed up my description with another item as I loaded so many items.  I know it can be difficult if you see something very late but it might be better to leave those things until you are more confident.

Happy Hunting

Michael

Hi Brett,

you’re absolutely right. I don’t take any chances unless I’m happy to lose!

I think the problem here is that this item appears on the Bidamount site as Kangxi mark and period. So if it is not Kangxi this is very unhelpful. We usually don’t find out if a piece actually is or is not as described until some poor soul has taken a punt! 

The other options are 1) to ask members on the forum before every purchase if they agree with the description (not really practical) 2) don’t buy anything until you’re an expert 3) buy what you like because you’re as likely to buy a fake or a misdescribed piece whatever you do.

I don’t think it is only confidence, even people with decades of experience and lots of confidence make mistakes? I think you have to take risks because you learn from your mistakes. But it’s different making a mistake because of your own carelessness or lack of knowledge and making a mistake because you took advice on what is a good purchase only to find out that it wasn’t?

Nic

The kangxi jar pictured above and listed as mark and period is not authentic IMO.

The colour is off and the base footing is also wrong for this period.

To top it off the pictures are terrible. The first picture is OK. The remaining look dark and blurry, like they turned the light off.

Mark