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Hello all:
Apart from the blue Cong vase about which I posted earlier (see thread below) Joanies House of Treasures last night had up for auction a rather nice teadust vase (see photographs). It was apparently from the same estate as the blue Cong vase. The impressed base mark was said to be Qianlong, but they felt that the vase dated to a later period. The stand was included. The vase measures 9-1/4" tall by 5" wide and 10-3/4" tall with the stand.
I thought that the glaze color was lovely, but my own assessment was that the vase was probably mid-twentieth century with the stand being older than the vase. I was again surprised by the final auction price of $4,049.99. It jumped suddenly in the last few seconds of the auction from about $500 to the final auction price.
Again just purely for educational purposes I would be interested to hear what forum members think about this vase.
Regards,
Errol
21st Century - 100% You can go to China right now and buy this for a few dollars.
When authenticating pieces such as this you should look towards research - old auctions and the palace museum collections. The shape of this is relatively poor, including the handles. The mark is also slightly out of rotation with the handles and doesn't match known examples of impressed or inscribed marks. I'm not a big fan of the glaze color either. Footrim is highly suspect - either it's dirty and vase has no wear or it was brown-dressed and has significant wear in comparison with the rest of the vase.
Don't be surprised by high prices - a lot of people are out there looking to make it big. High prices doesn't mean it is a good thing.
It is what it is!
A lot of money for a not very nice vase. I sometimes wonder (no aspertions intended on Joanies) if these kinds of thing are put into the market, artificially bid up to decent price so that it provides a point of reference with well-known name to ease acceptance of subsequent items. I have probably said that before and more eloquently!
Interesting, too, that the green vase posted by mb1991 was a similar shade with a similar dark footrim. Not that it means anything but it is interesting.
One has to wonder how a buyer might feel if he/she learned that a vase that they paid over $4,000 for is obtainable right now in China for a few dollars? One has to wonder who the buyers of these items are. Are they mainland Chinese nouveau riche (similar to the people who own that dreadful $45 million home in Singapore) who know nothing about Chinese art and who just have money to burn?
Regarding teadust in general, I understand that it was the late Michael Vermeer's favorite coloring. One does not often see genuine antique teadust items around.
Genuine teadust come up regularly - 1 here and there throughout the year. Much easier to find than some other things. If you can get a nice teadust of impeccable condition and form for $8-12k - that's a solid buy, but they do cost more for "authentic" ones and much more for marked examples.
Hard to answer your other question... sometimes the bidding isn't even real on platforms like eBay.
It is what it is!
Hi All,
Just as an aside to all these very doubtful items that seem to turn up with certain sellers on Ebay and other on line sellers of Asian so called Antiques. I found this seller on Ebay openly selling reproductions at buy it now or make an offer. I have no connection with this seller and have never brought anything from them. They are not doing anything wrong if you were just looking for a declarative item or a flower vase it might be a place for you.
Two things occur to me how cheaply this seller must be able to buy such items wholesale to be able to offer them at these prices and how easy it might be to select a suitable item tea stain the base sell it with an old stand and a carefully worded fluff description and stand a chance of making a profit from the gullible. I like sleeping so won't be trying. I quite like the one with the Panda's !
Michael.
Hi Michael,
I have seen this seller before.
I like this one. I assume they are all transfer printed. Seen a similar one being offered by a known dealer at 10x.
Mark
Hi Michael:
Very interesting. Regarding Chinese art, the profit margins must be huge for those sellers on eBay and other platforms who can buy reasonable looking contemporary porcelains in China for a few dollars and later sell them on eBay for a few hundred dollars as vintage items or even antiques. As you say, a few changes to the foot and a nice carved wooden stand can turn a fake into a household's pride and joy. The profit margin must be enormous. You are correct too that the more puffed up the description and history, the more likely we are to fall for the con job. It is rare to find Chinese items on eBay that don't originate in a distinguished but unidentified collection that has just been laying around for a few decades.
However, these kinds of faked Chinese items pale into insignificance when compared with other types of art fraud.
You and others might be interested in a film documentary that is being made (See link) about how a brazen $80-million scam that fooled collectors with fake Pollock and Rothko masterpieces shook the NYC art world and brought down Manhattan's oldest art gallery. In summary, a Chinese gentleman was producing fakes in his garage in one of the NYC boroughs and then laundering them through Knoedler and Co. established in NYC in 1846. Several of these fakes were sold to prominent New Yorkers for $8-million or more. The gallery has since closed but the various culprits fled to other countries that refused to extradite them to the USA. It is clear that even the most intelligent and business-savvy people are vulnerable to fraud involving art objects.
As regards Chinese art, the fraudsters are getting better and better and it takes a lot of eyes to detect higher-end fakes. I think the forum is very useful for this purpose.
Regards,
Errol
P.S. I know it might be heresy but I'm not a fan of either Rothko or Pollock. Indeed, I regard this type of work as junk art. It is easy for me to see how a fraudster can throw a few blobs of paint around and produce a modern masterpiece!
Hi Michael -
Concur with the post comments, the overal shape/proportions - not the most aestheticly pleasing - glaze, footrim and mark all indicate this has little age ...
As for the price obtained who knows - there are always games been played ...
Personally, I have never delt with Joanies but this established has been discussed several times before here - sometimes not in the most glowing terms ...
Stuart
Hello Stuart:
The description from Joanies, however, did not make any specific claims as to age and period. They state that the vase originated from the estate of a family that emigrated from China to Canada c 1960 and that the items offered at auction had been stored unopened in containers in the family's garage since 1960. In the vase's description they state simply that the vase has an impressed Qianlong base mark but likely dates to a "later period." If the item was moved from China in 1960 that would give the vase at least 60 years of age. Is it possible, in your opinion, that this vase could date to the earlier PROC period as the description seems to imply?
Regards,
Errol
Hi Michael -
As Joanies made no specific claims to age or period then, as always, it is down the bidders to decide such ...
As for the 'provenance' stated, without cast-iron evidence ie: old dated purchase recipes or photographs including said object pre 1960, then it is just a 'story' and as such should have no significance to the object been offered ...
I'am not implying the history is false, may well be true, but such 'stories' are oftern include within object descriptions without corresponding evidence ...
As has been oftern said here before - 'buyer beware' ....
Stuart
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