The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
Hello all:
Last night I watched an eBay auction from Joanies House of Treasures. Prior to the auction I had noticed a rather attractive Cong vase with lustrous blue enamel (see photographs below) among the items up for auction. Joanies described it as a DAOGUANG BLUE ENAMEL PORCELAIN ELEPHANT HANDLE CONG VASE. The vase measures 11 3/8 inches tall by 7 inches long including the handles, and 5 inches square and apparently originated from an old estate. The stand was included. Although I found the vase attractive, I was staggered by the final auction price of US $9,299.00. There were 57 bidders.
I was interested just for educational purposes in what forum members think about this vase. Do you think it is of mark and period and is it worth the price paid? My own guess ahead of the auction was that it would sell for about $1,800 and that it was probably late 19th. C. I have a Cong trigram vase in apple or possibly sea green (see photographs) of almost the same dimensions with a stand that I have always thought was probably of the Guangxu period. The vase had previously been drilled for conversion into a lamp. I recall that I paid about $900 for it at an eBay auction several years ago.
Anyway, I'd be very interested in what forum members think about this vase.
Regards,
Errol
The green cong is probably late 19th to early 20th century. I feel comfortable with that estimate given how the Yongzheng (obviously later) mark is written. I've seen some similar examples with "CHINA" inscribe into them. The wide footrim is a nice thing to see.
The cobalt blue "Daoguang" cong is 21st century. It's suspect to begin with given that these are usually seen from different reigns. The glaze shouldn't thin to white at the corners. Foot and mark are highly suspect.
A provenance story is just that. Perhaps it is true, but when considering spending any amount like this you should really see paperwork - verifiable through either contact info or historical records, OR you should have a high degree of confidence based on first-hand experience. If you ever want to resell - someone will ask you for this paperwork also.
It is what it is!
This is just my opinion, but I am always suspicious of vases that have that look of being thickly coated in glaze, as with this and the other vase you posted. Things like the handles get a rounded look to their edges, they lose definition which I feel they should have. The kind of definition you can see on your lovely vase.
I'm relieved to hear that you think that my green Cong vase is probably Guangxu or at the latest Republican. Certainly, if one compares the foot on my green Cong vase with the foot of the blue vase, the blue vase has a rather newish looking foot. Although I don't much care for drilled feet on vases, is some ways drilling is reassuring because it suggests an early 20th century origin when many of these vases were drilled to make lamps.
Also, while I'm no expert on marks, the mark on the foot of the blue vase looks very amateurishly executed and rather vague.
I never had any intention to bid on the blue vase. Certainly, I have never paid that amount of money on any Chinese item and wouldn't dream of doing so in the case of a vase with rather dubious provenance and features that suggest a more recent origin than that stated.
Errol
Hi Julia: I'm really glad you like my green Cong vase. I've had it sitting for years on a small table in my study. My back was always towards it when I worked at my desk so I rarely ever "saw" it. Recently, I decided to move it into the living room. It now sits on a Qing-style table against the pale pink wall plaster and it looks really lovely and it's a joy to see it every day. It's amazing that an item made with slab construction can be so attractive. There is something really nice too about the trigram pattern on some Cong vases.
Regards,
Errol
I don't think the vase sold by Joanies is modern. It is nearly identiacal to a Daoguang vase sold at Christie's. Size, foot ring, mouth and handles matches perfectly. Glaze is also thinning to white at the corners. For while I thought it was the same vase but the marks doesn't seem to match. https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-a-blue-glazed-cong-shaped-vase-daoguang-six-character-seal-6285237/
@erroll I would say that fixed cracks, iron staples, and drill holes are not a sign of any age. Many of the newly formed Chinese auction houses on liveauctioneers which offer only reproductions have included these "signs of age" along with "collection stickers" into the aging process of pieces.
It is what it is!
Hello:
Yes, I know that too. However, some of these things require more trouble for mass producers of fake items. So, they can be taken into consideration along with multiple other factors when one assesses an item.
Errol
@avatar If you want to choose that she is selling $36,000 items for $9,000 with a $9.99 starting bid at really no reserve - that's ok. But it's very easy to email an auction house and get an estimate for consignment.
I would also draw your attention to the foot. Christie's vase has a straight tall foot. Joanie's vase has a small foot that tapers inwards from the corners. The glaze is much thicker at Christie's, and Joanie's vase has slight pooling of the glaze at the bottom corners. Christie's vase's mark is much more defined. Sometimes the differences will be small, but they are there.
It is what it is!
Yes, thank you for bringing this to our attention. The vase sold at auction by Joanies is a virtually identical Cong vase to the Christie's vase to my eyes at least. I see the Christie's vase sold for 36,250 GBP with an estimate of 4,000 - 6,000 GBP. I don't have the original listing. However, I recall that Joanies mentioned in their description of the vase that a similar vase had been sold by Christie's and that it "would be well worth checking on that." They did not provide a link, however.
As you point out, Christie's describes their vase as "A BLUE-GLAZED CONG-SHAPED VASE DAOGUANG SIX-CHARACTER SEAL MARK AND OF THE PERIOD (1821-1850). The square vase is flanked by a pair of moulded elephant-head handles and is covered overall with a deep sapphire-blue glaze thinning slightly on the edges. 11 3/8 in. (29 cm.) high." The foot rims in the two vases appear similar. The Christie's vase has a more sharply defined six-character seal mark than the vase offered at the eBay auction.
Would everyone agree now that the eBay vase is Daoguang and, if so, could be considered a bargain at $9,299 USD compared with Christie's vase that had a hammer price of 36,250 GBP? Both vases are in similar condition although the Joanies vase has a few scratches.
Regards,
Errol
I had not seen your response when I posted. I would also always defer to others with a more expert eye than mine. However, I think if a group of Chinese art collectors were presented with the two vases without an identification as to the source, I would not be surprised if most would be unable to distinguish the two vases from each other. To me, the difference in the seal marks is the most significant issue. However, could that not be due to wear and tear?
As you point out though why with prior knowledge that an almost identical sapphire-blue Cong vase had been sold by Christie's at auction for 36,000 GBP would someone choose to sell the vase on eBay for $9,299 which at current exchange rates is about $40,000 lower in price? It's interesting too that Christie's had an estimate of 4,000 - 6,000 GBP which would have resulted in a sales price of about $8,000.
I'm pleased that we have had this discussion. I hope others will weigh in with additional thoughts.
Regards,
Errol
Hi Michael -
As with the tea-dust vase, I would concur with others - especially @collectingasia's - comments regarding this blue cong vase ...
I would also add that the glaze depth/tone's between the Christies vase posted by Cory and the Joanies example are markedly different - compare the base images on both pieces and note the colour, depth and surface light relection - the Joanies piece is clearly modern ...
Theoretically - if the two vases could be examined side by side - I'am sure the subtly differences between each would be seen, and when handled they would also 'feel' rather different ..
Stusrt
Hello Stuart:
I will take your word on it - you have seen and dealt with far more of these monochromes than have I. However, if the Joanies vase is a modern copy, as you suggest, then whoever made it did a really good job. Unfortunately, we will never know because an exact side-by-side comparison and an evaluation of how the two vases would feel different if handled will never be possible.
I think the sapphire-blue color is very lovely in both vases.
Regards,
Errol
Hello all:
I notice that Joanies House of Treasures (JHT) has for auction this week (See link) another blue Cong vase (see photographs of new auction vase below) almost identical to the one they sold at auction a while back for over $9,000 (see photographs in the first post of this thread). The last one they sold was described as a DAOGUANG BLUE ENAMEL PORCELAIN ELEPHANT HANDLE CONG VASE. This one has a different six-character mark and they describe it as a RARE CHINESE IMPERIAL GUANGXU MARK & PERIOD BLUE GLAZE ELEPHANT CONG VASE. There was a similar sapphire-blue Cong vase sold by Christie's at auction in 2020 for 36,250 GBP (See link) as a Daoguang vase. Some forum members thought that the JHT vase was a contemporary copy and not a Daoguang vase. I must say I am confused about all of this. Is the most recent JHT Cong vase a Guangxu copy of a Daoguang vase or is it a more modern replica?
Regards,
Errol
Latest Post: Fakes being passed as authentic on eBay Migu Larry Chinese virtual UKseller Our newest member: Karen Schneider Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.