Hey David,

This looks like Fujian produced Qingbai, more creamy and less blue.... really nice design with the phoenixes.  Pretty sure this is Yuan, rather than Song.

Here is a good article on the Fujian trade ceramics.

http://www.koh-antique.com/fujianceramics/fceramics.htm

Cheers,

Jeremy

Jeremy,

Thanks for the link and your comments.  In the link, which is very good, the vast majority of gray ware is carved.  The molded ware and boxes were all soft white ware.  This bowl is a hard gray ware that rings like a bell.  None of that white ware can ring - it is too soft.  The Pheonix HEAD is used on jars from Tang onward, I think.  But nothing like this molded Pheonix bowl.  While in the Philippines i tried to collect all of the molded type bowls, only three of mine are gray ware with molded designs.  So, I'm somewhat confused.

David Coles

@musicnus 

Hey David,

A few quick distinctions, when I said Fujian, I meant one of the 150(give or take a few) possible kilns, I don't know nearly enough to tell you which ones.  That said I expect the Dehua, Minnan, and the Putian kilns to have produced more white paste wares than the others, just simply because they were larger and better regulated.  If you say the gray rings like a bell but the white do not, it could also mean it simply reached a higher temp in the same kiln, thus changing its over all color as well.  Below is a photo of Two of my Fujian(#2,3) Qingbai pieces and one Guandong piece(#1).  Note the differences, 2 and 3 are from likely the Minan kiln and both mid 12th century but each has a different shade of glaze, one creamy and one blueish, and slightly different paste.  They were just fired differently, the small jar(#3) reached a higher temp, it rings like a bell, The ewer(#2) does ring out but is thicker and a bit more dull.  The Guandong provincial one I do Not know the kiln exactly, but it is also a Qingbai type ware, with a gray paste, but a much lower firing temp, and far less refined a paste.

Also To note is that Marco Polo ware is a rather dated name for these, and is based upon the mindset that these things were "discovered" by him, when he simply visited places that were already in full production and trade when he stopped by.  He even stated that "Zayton" or Quanzhou int he Fujian province was one of the two greatest trading centers in the world, I believe he called it the "Alexandria of the East", but don't quote me on that as a direct quote I don't recall where I read it.

These trade ceramics, especially Qingbai were already heavily traded in the Middle East ( even Africa has had earlier examples excavated), as well as SE Asia for hundreds of years before he stopped by... kind of funny what the west ends up calling things.... Believe me whenever I read one of the old books on the Japanese kilns and an author refers to a piece as a Brinkley-Type jar instead of Seto ware I laugh all the same.

I really would love to see the comp of all you Qingbai pieces, I suspect it is a very interesting archive of all the traded wares in the Philippines... sounds pretty nerdy and cool to me 🧐 🤣 . 

Cheers,

Jeremy

Apropos to this discussion, I won this bowl from Ceramics and Collectibles last Saturday eve. I found myself mesmerized by the whitish color and the beautiful shape. I knew since it was from C&C that it was the genuine article.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134460974062?nma=true&si=3oMuFc%252BF7WcfubzvHBM%252FaxiLgkY%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

@charlotte 

Beautiful.... do post it when it comes in. 

Jeremy

@jbeer2121 Will do Jeremy! What do you think of the sales price?

@charlotte 

Looks good to me. 

Its a nice size too.

I just bought a nice Qingbai piece that should be here in the next day or so... I'll be posting it soon.

Jeremy

@jbeer2121 Looking forward to seeing that! I'd love to know where you found it. I keep my eye on Brian Page (Matthew) for Qingbai pieces; he says they're hot now, and usually sell they day they come on!

Friends,

A poster on another site found another Phoenix bowl very much like mine.  I had looked on that site many times even recently but didn't see it:  "you find another Yuan Dehua bowl with an impressed Phoenix decoration on Mr. Koh's website."
http://www.koh-antique.com/fujianceramics/fceramics.htm

Here it is so you don't have to scroll through it.
David Coles