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Wasting time on Ebay, came across this, listed as “possibly Ming”. With the indulgence of the folks here on the forum I would like a cirque of my thoughts.
These bowls are not Chinese but of Vietnamese or Maylasian production for their domestic market. I say this do to the shape they do not have the rounded bowl shape, and the foot rim on at least two of the bowls just doesn’t look to be correct, far to shallow with an angled shoulder rather than straight cut on the inside edge of the rim. The dark almost black decoration indicates a poor quality of cobalt or maybe not even cobalt. The decoration although a very provincial vine design, have the look and feel of SE Asian style. As far as age, they could be late Ming in age but suspect early Qing.
Thanks for your patience and all comments will be appreciated.
Ron
I don't suppose you have a photo from the top, do you, Ron? I was wondering if they were decorated or had some other feature which may be of use.
The color and style reminded me a bit of a bowl I came across recently I had been meaning to post for thoughts, so I'll include here for comparison. This one seems much newer, but perhaps it also has a Vietnamese/Malaysian/etc. connection?
Thanks or the feedback here is a picture looking down into the bowls.
The Japanese had a thriving trade with Vietnamese kilns for tea ceremony items, the Japanese liked the freely painted flowers. That seems like coals to Newcastle but I know from John Guy's book on Southeast Asia ceramics, tomorrow I will find a proper citation, I don't feel up to going upstairs again today. These also have a somewhat kitchen qing feel to the bases.
Thanks for the photos, Ron. They have a look of cizhou ware, although I don't think the bases are correct but that may explain the possibly Ming (or earlier?) comment. Stuart will know.
I can see why Sharon suggests Japanese. I had two bowls, different shape, glaze, base, but similar decoration in cobalt, which I assumed were rough and ready Chinese items, but I saw Peter referred to a similar one as Japanese.
The decoration is also reminiscent of some pieces I posted on here a while back. They were said to be possibly Liling items, but I had always suspected they were Japanese.
So, there are times when I just can't tell and this is one of them! If pushed, at the moment, I might say Chinese, 19th c, but I am not certain. I know very little about pieces from elsewhere so you may be correct on thinking they are from elsewhere.
I look forward to more opinions, a Japanese origin never crossed my mind. But I suppose at this point any thing is possible. I ask this question in an attempt to solidify lessons learned by my recent purchase of a Fujain Vietnamese bowl I purchase a few week ago as Yuan/Ming provincial ware that turned out to be 300 yeas newer. This bowl
Only one of the three in the lot looks similar to my Fijian example but the decoration is far more retrained.
Ron
@ronm Ron here it is: Guy, John; Ceramic Traditions of South-East Asia, Oxford University Press, Singapore, 1989 p.59
"The seventeenth century also saw the production of a group of wares expressly for Japan, with whom Tonkin already had an active trade, particularly in silk. The demand appears to be associated with the revival of the tea ceremony . . . These wares have sketchily painted designs, poorly controlled (described by the Japanese as Shiboride, 'blurred drawing') . . . Many of these wares have been preserved in family collections since the seventeenth century. Osawa, a merchant family with documented trading connections with Tonkin in this period, preserved an important collection of these wares, now to be seen in the Kyoto National Museum."
I did see today that Worthpoint had information on a conical shaped similar bowl as Vietnamese and also a different shaped bowl similar to your second pictured bowl. It was stated that the Japanese call these Vietnamese tea bowls Annan-Chawan. Sharon
Here is my only old Vietnamese piece, John Guy's book had two similar pieces illustrated in his book, one underglaze blue and one underglaze brown similar to mine. Mine is a small dish.
Here is my little covered box from Thailand with a broken lid, which I broke. Similar boxes were illustrated in the book.
Three pieces makes a collection, here is my only other piece from Thailand, which I purchased in Malaysia. I have never found him in any book. The color is a dark chocolate brown, not the brighter color of the photo.
Other than a modern piece of a frog from Vietnam, these are my only South-East Asian pieces, other than Indonesian.
@johnshoe John, I think your bowl may be Korean or Japanese. It seems in the photo to have a celadon or light blue ground and a far more sophisticated decoration. I also like the fluid script of the mark, if only we could read it, then our questions might be answered. I too have not come across one simiar in sesrches. Sharon
Sharon, that is great research and lesson. So my original thoughts of it being Vietnamese production is spot on, that’S good to know.
Interesting these bowls could possibly be involved in the tea ceremony. When I think of the tea ceremony I think of a quiet meditative affair of pouring hot water over an brownish red tea pot and pouring into a small cup of the finest quality filled with strict protocols and procedures. The bowls I posted seem more of a pour it in, throw it down the gullet and get back to work type bowls.
Off to do more research on tea ceremonies and annan-chawan wares. Once again thanks fo the input by every one.
Ron
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