@greeno107 

Hi Tim.  thank you again for showing this.   Now, I see, it looked like a semi clear milky bump .. the rest of the plate (shown on this photo) seens to have an orange peel effect... am i correct ?

Thanks... again..

@superox The term, 'orange peel', is specific to the texture of the slip on Ming wares having little pits (like the surface of an orange), so I would caution you not to use it in this instance.... we don't want to confuse meanings.

Yongzheng and Qianlong pieces generally have slightly rough texture due to bubbles that had formed during the firing, unless the enamel has been applied very thinly.

I was just looking at photos of my Qianlong mallet vase (sold).  Look at the texture of the leaves of the tree...very dramatic.

@superox Here's a link to a Yongzheng vase I once owned.  The photos are not in the best light, but the resolution is pretty good, so you should be able to zoom in to the different color enamels and see the variations in the color and texture.

The vase was in rough condition, but the subject matter was wonderful (love the cat).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/23676403@N07/albums/72157630971139442/with/7740137392/

And... just a quick capture of one part of my old vase that shows some extreme bubbles caught in the enamel.

This would not be typical in Imperial wares to have bubbly rough glaze to this extent, but certainly you would see it in places even on Imperial wares.

@greeno107 

Its almost like a boiling lava flow that just stopped.

I can also see the dramatic changes in the colour of the tree.  It makes it even more realistic !  

I have asked the company I bought to send me more photo hope to be able to get back to the group soon.

Did you see my plate photo ?  it looked really shiny though 😓  could it be the flash photography ?

lets see... thanks again and also a shout out for the rest of the group!  

This is a very intellectual conversation and I am deeply humbled for everyones effort..

Al

@superox Yes, I saw the posted photos of your plate.  It is difficult to judge based upon the comparatively low light and resolution, but as I had mentioned before (and others), some of the rendering is a bit below expectation.  Still, a Republic copy would be worth more than what you paid, so don't loose hope yet.

I went back and captured a small part of one of your photos and put it side by side with the plate sold by Christie's....take a look...

Yes, lighting is different, but despite the light you can see some differences, right?

Left is your plate ....slightly muddy colors, more translucent, thicker and more uniform line work.

Right is Christie's plate.... bright almost pastel colors, more opaque, and very distinct line work using lines that go from thick to thin.

Fingers crossed until we see some better photos.

Posted by: @johnshoe

@jbeer2121 I find it hard to believe that the border design would have been treated this casually in comparison to the more detailed examples given the way the other aspects were done to emulate the best period examples. If anyone has located a period example with this loosely done border I would like to take a look at it to compare. At any rate, I agree that we need to see good pictures in natural light that can be enlarged, etc., before we can have a better sense of what this plate is. 

John, as I said earlier, it isn't just this plate.  The Christie's one you posted shows it, too. For example, follow the pattern along the inner edge of the border closest to the central decoration and you will see the same misalignment. 

@julia alignment isn't the only issue. Look at the difference in the way the pattern is done, the line work doesn't have the fine detail, crispness or subtlety. It looks like a rushed cheap job. 

It is still an example of sloppier work than on other borders. As you say, why would the other parts of decoration be to a better standard? Possibly doing these intricately patterned borders on a curve and a slant was difficult. If this is a copy, you still have the same issue : why does the border appear less carefully done than the rest?. 

@julia Don't get me wrong, I think there are other subtle aspects of the entire decoration that are not done as well either, but to me the border stands out as one of the most obvious differences and is the smoking gun for why this is not 18th C. Some of those other things have already been pointed out earlier in this thread. These ruby backed plates from the 18th C were done to the highest standards from my understanding, so it doesn't seem realistic they would have wasted the enamels on something substandard in any way done in this style. Every aspect of these should be top notch. That is one of the ways we know to identify reproductions, because they get certain things pretty close to accurate, but then they botch other elements. They put more focus on trying to get the central figures done right and skimped on the border, which is probably not uncommon of a trait in reproductions.

I am not saying that this cannot be a copy or that I don't know, in principle, how to recognise one (although we all get it wrong sometimes).  What I am saying is, that on your argument of everything needing to be top notch, then the Christie's fails that test. Not just the border, but the flowers that Brian pointed out on the plate under discussion, were also not shaded on the Christie's one. 

If these plates had an imperial reign mark, the of course, I would expect better.  In fact sometimes, copies are better in some respects because of developments in technique, enamels, knowledge but then the "hand" is often missing.

@julia Well, I do not agree with you that the Christies plate isn't top quality for this type of item, and obviously the market wouldn't agree either because it sold for over $50,000 which is a very high price for an unmarked plate under 8 inches. So clearly it has been recognized as a top tier item by people who collect these types. It came from a prominent collection of a person who focused on high level Yongzheng items such as this and before that was obtained from The Chinese Porcelain Company in the late 20th C, so it has impeccable provenance of being handled and owned by people who specialized in the best of this class. I think if you look more closely again and compare the two you will notice more differences that point to the more authentic qualities of the Christies plate. For example, look at the stand to the left of the lady and the objects on it. Compare how much extra detail there is on the Christies plate. Also, notice how much more involved the border is on the Christies plate, double banded and with the lovely and creative cartouches, whereas the other plate is way more simplistic, and doesn't have the extra artistic touches that would indicate more time spent on its creation. 

John, all I said was it is not perfect. You asked for an example of a less than perfect border, I was trying to give you one not looking for an argument. 

Really that was all, sorry if it has got your back up. 😊  I have not said anywhere that it wasn't worth the money, because it doesn't need to be absolutely perfect to have people who want it, fight over it. 

Hello Julia and John.

I know one person who looked at the chinese website (I cant read chinese unfortunately) but found me a similar plate like mine.

This plate is 20 cm and has a ruby back as well it is more higher detail and no sign of wear at all.  Also, what bugs me is that black feather duster which was done as a blob..

but the chair she is sitting one is similar to mine.  Would this be a nail in the coffin for this plate (ie its a modern) this one on chinese website seems to be "trying to be perfect" too much details but can we safely say that my plate is older than this ?  Unless the wear is done deliberately by modern fakester so it can sell at a lower price than the Christies version.

https://m-auction.artron.net/productdetail/art5198162842

looking forward to a good nightly feedback... 😴 

Al 

That one does look like a copy. Interesting how the final line towards the outer rim comes and goes.  There are other missing bits too, could part of it be printed?  I can't get it to translate.