BidAmount Asian Art News

Auctions Of Chinese and Asian Art, Auction Results News

  • Home
  • Weekly News Letter Page
  • The Forum
  • YouTube
  • plcombs Asian Art
    • Visit plcombs-Chinese-Asian Art
    • About, plcombs Chinese-Asian Art Antique Dealer | Massachusetts
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • A Few Site Pages
  • Recomended Books
  • Blog
  • Sign Up-Global Member Pages
  • Sign In-Global Member Pages
You are here: Home / The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.


Asian art booksBasic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum:  Talk about whatever you want.  You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic.  Maximum image file  size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube,  Vimeo etc.  

NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button. 

Forums
The FORUM List
Help Identify This
Yongle period coppe...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Yongle period copper red and cobalt blue dragon meiping. Authentic or just a convincingly made copy?

 
Page 1 / 3 Next
    Last Post
  RSS

avatar
 avatar
(@avatar)
Noble Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1427
Topic starter 11/03/2020 5:34 am  

This Yongle style meiping sold for a relatively low price at auction somewhere recently. I was planing to bid on it but decided to let it go even though I think it was likely an authentic example.

For comparison there is this one sold in an a Florida auction in 2018 and before that at Christie's. https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/59670722_christie-s-chinese-ming-copper-red-meiping-vase

 


   
Quote
 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
11/03/2020 6:54 am  

Hi Cory - 

This is a modern fake ... 

It’s copying a well know and much published reconstructed meiping in underglazed blue and red with this dragon, cloud and mountains/wave composition excavated from the Yongle layers at the Imperial kiln site in 2003, and now in the collection of the Jingdezhen Ceramic Archaeology Research Institute ... 

Yongle meipings with such decoration had not been seen before in any collections or archaeological discoveries and were therefore unknown of before these 2002/4 excavations ... 

Having look at the images of the other example you cited on the liveauctioneers site, stated to have a 1960’s Christie’s provenance, this piece is also a fake - IMO ... 

Stuart


   
Julia, Adams Asian Art and Xin_Wyssemaria reacted
ReplyQuote
avatar
 avatar
(@avatar)
Noble Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1427
Topic starter 11/03/2020 7:52 am  

You are certain about that? The example on the liveauctioneers site was shown here by a member who used the name 'Charles'. This is the thread where he talks about it but for some strange reason the pictures have been removed: https://bidamount.com/the-bidamount-asian-art-forum/suspected-fakes-copies-being-sold/fake-xuande-underglaze-red-dragon-bowl-on-ebay I'm aware of the excavated example you mention that is now at Henan Museum. http://www.hnmuseum.com/sites/default/files/statics/tezhanhuimou/2014KilnOfMing%E5%BE%A1%E7%AA%91%E5%AF%86%E7%A0%81/eng/treasures069.html But there are other examples known like these sold by a top dealer named Chien Lung Tang.


   
ReplyQuote
Xin_Wyssemaria
 Xin_Wyssemaria
(@xin_fawis)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1330
11/03/2020 8:11 am  

The vase in the auction is definitly a fake. The colour red is not good enough to be delivered to the court. Just like the one you showed from Henan Museum. It's totally broken and came from the excavations. Pieces with bad quality were all destroyed. 

www.Wyssemaria-Art.com
[email protected]
Instagram: @wyssemaria_art


   
Michael, Julia, Michael M. and 2 people reacted
ReplyQuote
avatar
 avatar
(@avatar)
Noble Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1427
Topic starter 11/03/2020 9:47 am  

I'm not sure. But now I will have to search around on the internet to see if I can find some intact examples of Yongle period copper red glazed porcelain with a color tone that resembles the color of the two meipings I first posted. So far I have found this one which is exhibited at MFA, Boston, on loan from the Xiling Collection.

A higher resolution photo that gives a better impression of the color can be seen here: https://xilinggroup.com/collection-highlights The tone of the color of the one sold by Chien Lung Tang is not better than the color of the one at Henan Museum. I don't think the color was the reason why it was smashed.

This post was modified 5 years ago 2 times by avatar

   
ReplyQuote
 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
11/03/2020 10:49 am  

Hi Cory - 

Attached image of the publication covering the 2002/4 Imperial kiln site excavations ... 

The reconstructed Yongle meiping is on the cover and is discussed in great detail inside, including five superb high resolution images ... 

Apart from the red tone been totally unsatisfactory, as Xin mentions for Court selection, been inconsistent, patchy and blurred in places, the same faults apply to the cobalt blue used after firing. The piece may also have had body, glaze and/or defects to the composition ... 

Apart from the red colourant defects been totally unacceptably, the drawing, brush strokes and overall painting style on the two pieces you cite are clearly wrong ... 

Stuart

 


   
Xin_Wyssemaria and Adams Asian Art reacted
ReplyQuote
avatar
 avatar
(@avatar)
Noble Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1427
Topic starter 11/03/2020 1:24 pm  

I just don't understand why the meiping sold by Chien Lung Tang have survived if the color of the excavated meiping at Henan Museum site has been considered unsatisfactory. But if the meiping at liveauctioneers is fake then the meiping I had found and wanted to bid on is probably also a fake (Sad for the buyer if he paid $500,000 for it then). But I guess I must contact the auction in Florida to ask for more details about the sale if I want to be certain. 


   
ReplyQuote
 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
12/03/2020 6:24 am  

Hi Cory - 

I do not know the dealer/s Chien Lung Tang so can not comment on there expertises or reputation but from the images you cite, presumably taken from their website, the three Meipings illustrated would appear to be highly suspect, for the same reasons mentioned above ... 

Stuart 


   
Xin_Wyssemaria and Shine reacted
ReplyQuote
Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7033
12/03/2020 5:55 pm  

I had a look at said website:

chien-lung-tang. com

Of interest to me was the exhibition of republican period plaques. The second one from the left featuring a number of people in a country style theme. It appears to bear the seal mark of Wang Yeting (1884-1942). Master Wang Yeting was a master artist and a member of the famous 'eight friends of zushan'. Very sought after master and highly copied.

The website makes no reference to who the plaque is by or any details for that matter. Simply one picture. And a blurry one at that! I could only just make out the chop mark. 

Based purely on the following observations in my opinion this plaque is not a genuine example by the master. 

1.  The style and flow of the calligraphy is wrong.

2.  The bluish-green is also wrong for this master. Wang Yeting was known for his unique blend and display. Often copied with little success. 

3.  The tree, rockery, houses and people are poorly and clumsily depicted. 

4.  The overall look is not consistent with known examples. Wang Yeting style changed considerably during his lifetime both in painting style and calligraphy. 

The other plaques from the same period also look suspect etc. However I can only confirm my opinion on Wang Yeting. 

Mark 

This post was modified 5 years ago by Adams Asian Art

   
Xin_Wyssemaria and Ming1449 reacted
ReplyQuote
avatar
 avatar
(@avatar)
Noble Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1427
Topic starter 13/03/2020 7:22 am  

So now Denmark is closing down because of the virus which means I can't go to the library and I only have a smartphone in my home which need to be replaced. I need to buy a PC. But I think the items that appear at Chien Lung Tang's website are rather serious items.

About the meiping, I'm very far from being convinced it's a fake. But I will contact Elite Auctioneers in Florida If I want to know more. But I must say that I doo find it somehow strange that no one commented the meiping is fake when it was first shown on this forum by a forum member who calls himself Charles. 

The source from where the pictures of the meiping in focus is copied have had some very interesting pieces up for auction. In fact I've got something in transit bought there that has a rarity and potential value much greater than the meiping. I am a little sceptical about it myself though...

 


   
ReplyQuote
Xin_Wyssemaria
 Xin_Wyssemaria
(@xin_fawis)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1330
13/03/2020 7:36 am  

I forgot to say the cobalt blue on your vase is also not correct. 

http://www.gucn.com/Service_ShowCurio_Show.asp?ID=12126

Look, this guy has even a better one at home.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_14a3243860102ya3x.html

www.Wyssemaria-Art.com
[email protected]
Instagram: @wyssemaria_art


   
ReplyQuote
clayandbrush
 clayandbrush
(@clayandbrush)
Famed Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1611
13/03/2020 9:01 am  

Corey, I really don't know why people is still answering to someone like you who clearly continue making fun of others.

You continue bringing obvious fakes, trying to support them ALWAYS with supposed references from totally obscure sites.

Exactly like in this case, where you mention a "top dealer named Chien Lung Tang", whi is a top dealer only in your brain. Who is him? Where are they located? Why is a top dealer someone who doesn't say ever a minimum of information about him?

And you continue saying that the obvious fakes that you have are extremely valuable but, although solicited many times, you have NEVER, NEVER, reported here the opinion of an expert of one of the major auction houses.

Here three experts are telling you that that vase is a fake but you continue sayin g that you are convinced it is genuine.

Please stop to treat everyone here like idiots.

Giovanni

 


   
Michael, Sharon P, Shinigami and 3 people reacted
ReplyQuote
 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
13/03/2020 12:25 pm  

Hi Cory -

As with Mark, I spent some time looking at chien-lung-tang.com ...

For me the exhibition of Ming period wares was most interesting, and I noted the following:-

1. Apart from some of the dishes, no base images are shown for any object.

2. As with Mark, some images appear somewhat blurred, others slightly distorted.

3. No provenance is given for any piece, just an M followed by numbers. In some cases comparative examples are quoted for reference ,          mostly from museums, publications and/or auctions.

4. No news updates have been added to this site since December 2014.

Based on the images shown all of these Ming pieces are, IMO, are highly suspect due to the painting style, execution of individual motifs within the overall compositions, colour/glaze tones, shapes and the footrim/bases when shown  ...

Stuart 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


   
Julia, Michael M. and Shinigami reacted
ReplyQuote
Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4854
13/03/2020 12:37 pm  

The seller Chien Lung Tang is indeed very secretive. No information on the website. According to a direcory he is located in Taiwan. His website seems made mainly for Chinese buyers and IMO offers high quality fakes without any traces of age.

Birgit


   
Sharon P, Julia and Ming1449 reacted
ReplyQuote
Michael M.
 Michael M.
(@iluvatar)
Prominent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 555
13/03/2020 2:05 pm  

If you use https://lookup.icann.org/lookup , you'll get an address and contact information. Seems to be a resident of Taipei.

~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com


   
Sharon P, Julia, Ming1449 and 1 people reacted
ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 3 Next
Forum Jump:
  Previous Topic
Next Topic  

Notice

Weekly Video’s on You Tube, Subscribe Today!

Bidamount on Youtube asian Art news

Hundreds of Online Auction Catalogs

Chinese Art Auction Catalogs

Blog Archive

Global Auction “member pages”, get them all in just one place.

chinese porcelain auctions

Join our weekly newsletter for current eBay Asian Art Listings

Newsletter Sign Up
For Email Newsletters you can trust.

Get Our Thoughts On Any Auction Listing Anywhere, BEFORE You Bid

asian art auction

Click to View the News Letter Page

Asian Art News

Recent Posts

  • Pierre Le-Tan Auction Chinese, Japanese and Islamic Art Paris
  • Investing in Chinese Art Versus Collecting Chinese Art
  • Later Chinese Bronzes of the Song to Qing Dynasty
  • Asia Week In New York City September 2020 The Auctions
  • Japanese and Chinese Art Collection of Brian Page At Ma San Auctioneers
  • Bidit Auctions Fakes of Chinese Art In Marietta Georgia | Opinion
Click Here
Share:
  Forum Statistics
8 Forums
12.3 K Topics
91.1 K Posts
63 Online
7,688 Members

Latest Post: Box Our newest member: Steven Metz Recent Posts Unread Posts Tags

Forum Icons: Forum contains no unread posts Forum contains unread posts

Topic Icons: Not Replied Replied Active Hot Sticky Unapproved Solved Private Closed

Powered by wpForo  Powered by wpForo version 2.4.5

Super Globals

Options and Features



Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"

If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.

Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.

Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects.  As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.

Thank you,

Peter Combs


Topics and categories on  The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes. 

The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today

The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube.  Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings. 

Ancient Chinese Art - Ancient History Encyclopedia

The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.

Arts of Asia | The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston

The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...

Chinese Art: Characteristics, History - Art Encyclopedia

Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.

China Online Museum - Chinese Art Galleries: Home

China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.

Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art | Christie's

Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...

Fine Chinese Paintings | Christie's

Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...

Asian Art Week | New York | September 2019 | Christie's

Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.

Chinese Art from The Art Institute of Chicago | Christie's

Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...

Chinese Art in Hong Kong: A Brief ... - Christie's Education

Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.

The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art ...

The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.

Chinese Art | Sotheby's

The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...

Chinese Art Auctions - Chinese Paintings ... - Sothebys.com

Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.

Chinese Art | Sotheby's

Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.

Important Chinese Art | Sotheby's

With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.

Important Chinese Art | Sotheby's

Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.

Important Chinese Art | Sotheby's

Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.

Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art

Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.

Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art

Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.

Bonhams : Fine Chinese Paintings and Works of Art

Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries

Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art

Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.

Bonhams : Asian Art

Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.

Bonhams | Asian Art in London

Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map

Bonhams : Asian Art

Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.

Bidamount is a member of the eBay partner network, eBay is a registered trademark of eBay Inc. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the Bidamount User Agreement and Privacy Policy. Bidamount, 185 Main Street Suite B., Gloucester, Ma. all content © 2006–2025

proudly powered by WordPress | web design by smallfish-design

‹›×

    ‹›×