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This Yongle style meiping sold for a relatively low price at auction somewhere recently. I was planing to bid on it but decided to let it go even though I think it was likely an authentic example.
For comparison there is this one sold in an a Florida auction in 2018 and before that at Christie's. https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/59670722_christie-s-chinese-ming-copper-red-meiping-vase
Hi Cory -
This is a modern fake ...
It’s copying a well know and much published reconstructed meiping in underglazed blue and red with this dragon, cloud and mountains/wave composition excavated from the Yongle layers at the Imperial kiln site in 2003, and now in the collection of the Jingdezhen Ceramic Archaeology Research Institute ...
Yongle meipings with such decoration had not been seen before in any collections or archaeological discoveries and were therefore unknown of before these 2002/4 excavations ...
Having look at the images of the other example you cited on the liveauctioneers site, stated to have a 1960’s Christie’s provenance, this piece is also a fake - IMO ...
Stuart
You are certain about that? The example on the liveauctioneers site was shown here by a member who used the name 'Charles'. This is the thread where he talks about it but for some strange reason the pictures have been removed: https://bidamount.com/the-bidamount-asian-art-forum/suspected-fakes-copies-being-sold/fake-xuande-underglaze-red-dragon-bowl-on-ebay I'm aware of the excavated example you mention that is now at Henan Museum. http://www.hnmuseum.com/sites/default/files/statics/tezhanhuimou/2014KilnOfMing%E5%BE%A1%E7%AA%91%E5%AF%86%E7%A0%81/eng/treasures069.html But there are other examples known like these sold by a top dealer named Chien Lung Tang.
The vase in the auction is definitly a fake. The colour red is not good enough to be delivered to the court. Just like the one you showed from Henan Museum. It's totally broken and came from the excavations. Pieces with bad quality were all destroyed.
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I'm not sure. But now I will have to search around on the internet to see if I can find some intact examples of Yongle period copper red glazed porcelain with a color tone that resembles the color of the two meipings I first posted. So far I have found this one which is exhibited at MFA, Boston, on loan from the Xiling Collection.
A higher resolution photo that gives a better impression of the color can be seen here: https://xilinggroup.com/collection-highlights The tone of the color of the one sold by Chien Lung Tang is not better than the color of the one at Henan Museum. I don't think the color was the reason why it was smashed.
Hi Cory -
Attached image of the publication covering the 2002/4 Imperial kiln site excavations ...
The reconstructed Yongle meiping is on the cover and is discussed in great detail inside, including five superb high resolution images ...
Apart from the red tone been totally unsatisfactory, as Xin mentions for Court selection, been inconsistent, patchy and blurred in places, the same faults apply to the cobalt blue used after firing. The piece may also have had body, glaze and/or defects to the composition ...
Apart from the red colourant defects been totally unacceptably, the drawing, brush strokes and overall painting style on the two pieces you cite are clearly wrong ...
Stuart
I just don't understand why the meiping sold by Chien Lung Tang have survived if the color of the excavated meiping at Henan Museum site has been considered unsatisfactory. But if the meiping at liveauctioneers is fake then the meiping I had found and wanted to bid on is probably also a fake (Sad for the buyer if he paid $500,000 for it then). But I guess I must contact the auction in Florida to ask for more details about the sale if I want to be certain.
Hi Cory -
I do not know the dealer/s Chien Lung Tang so can not comment on there expertises or reputation but from the images you cite, presumably taken from their website, the three Meipings illustrated would appear to be highly suspect, for the same reasons mentioned above ...
Stuart
I had a look at said website:
chien-lung-tang. com
Of interest to me was the exhibition of republican period plaques. The second one from the left featuring a number of people in a country style theme. It appears to bear the seal mark of Wang Yeting (1884-1942). Master Wang Yeting was a master artist and a member of the famous 'eight friends of zushan'. Very sought after master and highly copied.
The website makes no reference to who the plaque is by or any details for that matter. Simply one picture. And a blurry one at that! I could only just make out the chop mark.
Based purely on the following observations in my opinion this plaque is not a genuine example by the master.
1. The style and flow of the calligraphy is wrong.
2. The bluish-green is also wrong for this master. Wang Yeting was known for his unique blend and display. Often copied with little success.
3. The tree, rockery, houses and people are poorly and clumsily depicted.
4. The overall look is not consistent with known examples. Wang Yeting style changed considerably during his lifetime both in painting style and calligraphy.
The other plaques from the same period also look suspect etc. However I can only confirm my opinion on Wang Yeting.
Mark
So now Denmark is closing down because of the virus which means I can't go to the library and I only have a smartphone in my home which need to be replaced. I need to buy a PC. But I think the items that appear at Chien Lung Tang's website are rather serious items.
About the meiping, I'm very far from being convinced it's a fake. But I will contact Elite Auctioneers in Florida If I want to know more. But I must say that I doo find it somehow strange that no one commented the meiping is fake when it was first shown on this forum by a forum member who calls himself Charles.
The source from where the pictures of the meiping in focus is copied have had some very interesting pieces up for auction. In fact I've got something in transit bought there that has a rarity and potential value much greater than the meiping. I am a little sceptical about it myself though...
I forgot to say the cobalt blue on your vase is also not correct.
http://www.gucn.com/Service_ShowCurio_Show.asp?ID=12126
Look, this guy has even a better one at home.
www.Wyssemaria-Art.com
[email protected]
Instagram: @wyssemaria_art
Corey, I really don't know why people is still answering to someone like you who clearly continue making fun of others.
You continue bringing obvious fakes, trying to support them ALWAYS with supposed references from totally obscure sites.
Exactly like in this case, where you mention a "top dealer named Chien Lung Tang", whi is a top dealer only in your brain. Who is him? Where are they located? Why is a top dealer someone who doesn't say ever a minimum of information about him?
And you continue saying that the obvious fakes that you have are extremely valuable but, although solicited many times, you have NEVER, NEVER, reported here the opinion of an expert of one of the major auction houses.
Here three experts are telling you that that vase is a fake but you continue sayin g that you are convinced it is genuine.
Please stop to treat everyone here like idiots.
Giovanni
Hi Cory -
As with Mark, I spent some time looking at chien-lung-tang.com ...
For me the exhibition of Ming period wares was most interesting, and I noted the following:-
1. Apart from some of the dishes, no base images are shown for any object.
2. As with Mark, some images appear somewhat blurred, others slightly distorted.
3. No provenance is given for any piece, just an M followed by numbers. In some cases comparative examples are quoted for reference , mostly from museums, publications and/or auctions.
4. No news updates have been added to this site since December 2014.
Based on the images shown all of these Ming pieces are, IMO, are highly suspect due to the painting style, execution of individual motifs within the overall compositions, colour/glaze tones, shapes and the footrim/bases when shown ...
Stuart
The seller Chien Lung Tang is indeed very secretive. No information on the website. According to a direcory he is located in Taiwan. His website seems made mainly for Chinese buyers and IMO offers high quality fakes without any traces of age.
Birgit
If you use https://lookup.icann.org/lookup , you'll get an address and contact information. Seems to be a resident of Taipei.
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